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Thread: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

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    AACA Life Member - Moderator Peter Gariepy's Avatar
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    AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    The AACA has a new display class that recognizes factory built replicas.

    Here is an outtake from the AACA Judges Guidelines:

    "This display class is for factory* assembled manufactured vehicles that replicate the look and style of a previous make and model. Vehicles must be 25 years of age or older to qualify. These vehicles have a newer, more modern driveline and chassis than the original vehicle on which the replication is based. The body may have fiberglass components and the interior may have modern accessories. A special team appointed by the VP* Class Judging will evaluate this class. The evaluation will consist of inspecting all areas of the vehicle with consideration for workmanship, condition and being factory built. After acceptance by the evaluation team, the vehicle will be certified SGCV. After certification, the vehicle owner will receive a SGCV badge at the awards banquet to be displayed on the front of the vehicle. The vehicle owner will also receive a participation "chip" from that meet. After four more participation "chips" have been received, the owner is entitled o a special SGCV "plaque board" to place the participation chips on. Vehicles will be accepted into this class after providing evidence of being factory assembled by either a copy of the manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (C of O) verifying it being a factory built vehicle or the manufacturer's "build sheet" or "production order" with the vehicle's serial number and production date documented along with a photo copy of the vehicle registration or title. Factory contact information, names and phone numbers should be included with the application, if available. All applications must be accompanied by a "C of O" copy or build sheet information along with all other pertinent documentation and sent to the VP-Class Judging. Vehicle acceptance is on a case- by- case basis and at the sole discretion of the VP-Class Judging with approval from the Class Judging Committee. Meet registration will not be accepted for these vehicles until the Vice President - Class Judging has reviewed all the documentation and approved it for entry. Vehicle owners will be notified of the decision. THE AACA DOES NOT ACCEPT "KIT CAR" VEHICLES. Included in this class are factory built: Avanti II, Clenet, Glenn Pray, Shay & Zimmer. Other vehicles may apply to the VP-Class Judging. "
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    If it is true that the AACA considers the Avanti II, this is an unfortunate error, as they were an automobile company in their own right. If the Avanti II is considered a replica, with a body built the same way as the Studebaker Avanti, than it would also be logical to call the Hollywood Graham a replica (Cord) and to also include it in this class. Even the American Austin of 1930 is a "replica" of the English Austin, also called the Dixi in Germany, and Datsun in Japan. The early Avanti II's were even constructed in the Studebaker plant in South Bend, IN. The concept of accepting factory built replica body cars such as the Glen Prey is an excellent idea, and a welcome addition to the club. I wonder what the CCCA club thinks of these fiberglass replicas of their treasures being so honored? Given the anger over the Town and Country debate, it probably is unthinkable.
    1929 Chrysler 65 roadster restored, 1930 Nash Twin Ignition 8 Cabriolet, unrestored, 1937 Chrysler C-17 restored , 1942 Packard Super 8 convertible under restoration
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    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    The AACA calls them Second Generation Collector Vehicles, not replicas, and recognizes them as being factory assembled. Each car is evaluated individually, because some companies offered both kits and turn-key automobiles. The AACA does not accept the backyard-built kit vehicles.
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Well, since I didn't have the foresight to keep my 1957 Porsche Speedster (or any of my other interesting cars - 52 MG TD; '61 Corvette; '39 Ford Roadster; '62 Triumph TR4; '63 Ferrari 250GTE 2+2) hopefully some day one or more of those fiberglass Porsche Speedsters will qualify as SGCV vehicles.

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Some of the Porshe replicas were made in Mexico; I had the opportunity to inspect one some 20 years ago. I would think that at least some of the Porshe speedsters are 25 years old. Ther were some of the best of all the replica's made as, when fitted with a later Bug engine, had the same HP as the original.
    1929 Chrysler 65 roadster restored, 1930 Nash Twin Ignition 8 Cabriolet, unrestored, 1937 Chrysler C-17 restored , 1942 Packard Super 8 convertible under restoration
    1942 Packard Super 8 160 138" wb unrestored, 1942 Packard Super 8 Darrin project, 1946 Packard pick up project with Packard White engine
    1947 Bentley 2 dr custom, 1950 DeSoto woody restored, 1950's car transport trailer 1970 Triumph TR250 (MC)HPOF, 1976 MB 450 SL, 1982 Lincoln

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Thanks Dave,

    Was watching one on eBay. Nice looking '57 356 Speedster made by Vintage Speedsters and registered as a '69 VW Beetle in WA. Course if I were to bid on this one, my wife would either divorce me or my name would be in next wek's obituary.

    Ray

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    Senior Member Paul Dobbin's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Interesting comments by Dave & Ray RE: the Porsche Speedster replica's.
    My experience started 45years ago when I bought a real 1957 Porsche Speedster 1600N while stationed in Germany. (It had been sold new in Texas and shipped to Germany. It was stolen and recoverd after the Pilot who ownwed it was killed in Vietnam.) I drove it two years in Germany and brought it home and enjoyed it in Florda for a few years.
    Then 25 years ago I bought 2 brand new replica's of the Speedster and a MGTD seized by the FBI from a South Florida "Collector Car" dealer.
    While the replica Speedster looked like the real thing and might even have been faster in a straight line, what a piece of junk! The VW suspension (without the weight), coach work, upholstery, fit and finish was all awful. And it was "factory produced" and came with a MSO.
    However, I guess most automobiles built in the 1980's were junk, replica's were not an exception. On the other hand, a real VW of the donor car vintage was a pretty well made car. I've had 10 old VW's in the last 50 years, so if I'd never had a real Porsche I might have liked it. Ignorance is bliss they say.
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    Paul Dobbin
    If you don't drive them, might as well collect clocks.

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Hi Peter and Dave! Ok, now a question I just purchased another car, a replica factory built by Contential Cord of a 1937 Cord (well kinda). Please look at ebay number 120572762108 for a full discription. Can I talk about it, and or ask questions without upsetting other members? I have been told they were built in 1969 and 1970. The full production was 1999, because at 2000 they had to meet epa requirements, ie smog.

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    Super Moderator R W Burgess's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    A friend of mine wants to know if a perspective member's "1929 Mercedes Gazelle" is an approved car for the SGCV? This will determine whether or not this individual joins the AACA or not.

    I could not find an approved list in the Judging Manual!!!

    Wayne

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Was it factory assembled?
    1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
    1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
    1948 Buick Woody
    1931 Model A Tudor
    :o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

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    Super Moderator R W Burgess's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    I have no idea Jeff. Let me find some more information or maybe post this link to the owner. I believe the owner is in the Manassas area.


    More info......
    "He has a "1929 Mercedes Gazelle". I sent him the Sec Gen info and he says he thinks AACA will accept it as it was "factory built". Could you give me the name of the Sec Gen "decider" in AACA?"

    Wayne

  12. #12

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    If the goal is more members? I would rather see original cars added. I am guessing we could come up with a few worthy candidates?
    1928 Graham-Paige 610 Sedan
    1929 Graham-Paige 827 Sedan
    1933 Graham 64 Sedan

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    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Quote Originally Posted by R W Burgess View Post
    A friend of mine wants to know if a perspective member's "1929 Mercedes Gazelle" is an approved car for the SGCV? This will determine whether or not this individual joins the AACA or not.

    I could not find an approved list in the Judging Manual!!!

    Wayne
    First you have to figure out what year it is. It is NOT a 1929. It is also not a Mercedes, so you'll have to figure out what it's really called. Then you have to find out of it has been factory assembled.
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    I like the way you think West.
    1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
    1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
    1948 Buick Woody
    1931 Model A Tudor
    :o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

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  15. #15

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    West;
    I will echo you and Restorer 32. There is not too much that causes me to do a slow burn, but the guy who puts his Factory 5 Cobra replica on a local show field as a 1965 Cobra is one of those. Nice replica...yes, beautiful car....absolutely, fun to drive H--- Yes!!, 1965 Cobra ABSOLUTELY NOT. There's a place for replicas, but not as the year of car they are replicating. I don't understand some states either which allow them to be titled as the year they are replicating!!!
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    50 Crosley Farm O Road
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    48 Crosley Panel Delivery
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    52 Crosley Wagon
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    48 Crosley Wagon
    52 Crosley Farm O Road
    50 Crosley Super Hotshot

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    Super Moderator R W Burgess's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Thanks guys. I will pass the info on.

    Wayne

  17. #17

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    This IS a joke, right? A 1929 Mercedes Gazelle is a flipping VW kit car, VW floorpan and engine! How could this possibly be called a second generation collector car?
    Official member of the L.S.S. I know it's misspelled, they only let me use 16 letters

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    Super Moderator R W Burgess's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Hi Doug. The owner is telling another region member that this is factory built.

    That's why I'm asking the question for them. They, and me, have no idea what this vehicle even looks like.

    Please note the AACA Statement, that PeterG posted above though.....

    "This display class is for factory* assembled manufactured vehicles that replicate the look and style of a previous make and model. Vehicles must be 25 years of age or older to qualify. These vehicles have a newer, more modern driveline and chassis than the original vehicle on which the replication is based. The body may have fiberglass components and the interior may have modern accessories."

    All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not certifying these cars myself.
    Wayne

  19. #19

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Have you guys heard of the Bayliff Coach Corporation of Lima, Ohio? Bayliff had the rights to the Packard name for awhile, and built two kinds of cars. One kind were neo-classics that captured the general flavor of 1930s era Packards, without actually being a replica of any one Packard in particular. The other and more common kind was they would take a then-new General Motors sedan or coupe, and customize it into their idea of what a modern Packard might have looked like.

    I am wondering if the Bayliff cars would fit into this class. Bayliff began doing his cars in 1979, so some of them now meet the 25 year age requirement. I think the gray area is that they were modifications of existing cars, rather than built from scratch cars, but at the same time, they were a factory modification, not a kit and not someone in their backyard. Approximately 200 Bayliff Packards were constructed.

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    What constitutes a "factory"?
    Two?
    Three?

    I have a car built for TV by a famous Hollywood car builder.
    It's a full-size, all metal replica of a famous antique car. He built three.
    Will the AACA let me in?

  21. #21

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    I have a friend rebuilding a George Barris Stutz replica from the "Bearcats" TV show. The car now has lots of original Stutz parts. If he finds an original engine it will be extremely hard to tell from an original for 95% of the viewing public. There is a 1928 Graham Paige boat tail speedster running around claiming it is original, but there are no factory records to back up the claim. How about the Bugatti Royal 1 million dollar exact replica built with factory blue prints? As time goes on this topic is just going to get harder to sort out.

    1928 Graham-Paige 610 Sedan
    1929 Graham-Paige 827 Sedan
    1933 Graham 64 Sedan

    http://grahampaige.blogspot.com/

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    Graham


    You posted a photo of MY car, not your friends ...(who I'm guessing is Ernie).

    Yes, Ernie bought the #3 Barris car which was used for car shows and did not appear in the TV series. It has a nunber of differences to the two TV cars, extra space near the fuel tank and bright yellow paint, and originally, two spare tires, two tail light units, faux machine guns , etc.

    Still, I'd like an answer...since Mr. Barris built three cars...does that constitute a factory in the eyes of the AACA?

  23. #23

    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    In the early years there were a lot of companies that built less than 10 cars, even Tucker only built 52 plus or minus a few. I would guess Duesenberg II has built more than 52?

    Duesenberg II® Murphy Roadster

    I am not endorsing anything just saying it is a slippery rock.
    1928 Graham-Paige 610 Sedan
    1929 Graham-Paige 827 Sedan
    1933 Graham 64 Sedan

    http://grahampaige.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    You are welcome to submit an application to AACA, but I'm pretty sure that George Barris would not be considered a "factory," and I don't think George Barris ever considered his shop a factory.
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

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    Re: AACA's Second Generation Collector Vehicles (SGCV) Class

    So, is the Phillips Berlina Coupe built in 1980-81 by the Phillips Motor Car Company in Pompano Beach, FL with less than 100 built considered to be a factory built replica? Berlinacoupe.org (Berlina Coupe International Club)
    Last edited by RayG; July 2nd, 2012 at 22:24.

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