Avanti Rescue

[Roger Zimmermann]

"hog trough" problem.

That sounds familiar. I had to replace those on my '64 Hawk.

I may be wrong, but the term hog trough applies only to Avantis. Hawk and other models have rocker panels or brakets which are spot welded to the floor. Of course, they are not immune to rust and after a while needs repair or replacement...

[Richard1]

I started out with Studebakers with a 50, then 54, finally a 59 Silver Hawk (my brother had the 53 Commander). I really wanted the Avanti when it came out, but there were no funds for it. The 59 had over 200,000 miles of high speed (90 to 120 mph) when I sold it at the end of 64, although it was starting to consume about as much oil as gas.

You can bet that if an Avanti ever shows up in this country it will be mine within a few days. Having it handy is a good way to get things done. I left the Corvair in a friends shop a half hour away from my house while I worked on it. Had to really dedicate the day to it. I have the Renault in my garage. A few Saturdays ago I had a few free hours, so I spend the morning pulling and stripping the engine. If it hadn't been there I would have had to plan for that.

[Landman]

I may be wrong, but the term hog trough applies only to Avantis. Hawk and other models have rocker panels or brakets which are spot welded to the floor. Of course, they are not immune to rust and after a while needs repair or replacement...

Actually Roger, I think they were called "sill boxes". They were welded to the underside of the body, along the edges. The body brackets were like outriggers that went from the frame to the underside of these boxes.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Pat, as Studebakers frames are rather narrow, the frame side members would be too short for a good stability of the body without the sill boxes. They are probably looking similar to the Avanti's hog trough. The technical name for those Avanti parts is certainly different too!
I can imagine that the nickname came once the parts are taking off the polyester body or better from the replacement parts before installation.
According to some litterature I have, Studebakers were prone to rust, unfortunately.

[SeventhSon]

To John and Alice Feser:

THANK YOU!!!!!

(I would attach some pics but it's not working, something about a "security token")

[SeventhSon]

Avanti made it safely home, now it's time to start. First, a complete overhaul of the fuel system from gas tank to carb. I'll siphon the gas tomorrow - a little gas smell in the garage at the moment. I cracked the door a bit to air things out, but I will most definitely get the gas out of it as well as remove the fuel pump and carb. I think I'll even pull the lines if it's not too much trouble.

I made my first significant order of parts from Studebaker International yesterday and I think I'll go ahead and order a fuel pump as well. I saw John (unimogjohn) had fun rebuilding his own but I'm a little crunched for time so I will just do a replacement on this. If you read this John, what did Dickies Radiator Shop do on your tank? I've been looking in the thread for it but haven't found it yet.

More tomorrow with some pics too! (Well, maybe some pics, I've tried several times today to post pics of the move to no avail. Maybe tomorrow...)

[SeventhSon]

Well, the gas smell is gone! Opening the garage door an inch or so cleared it out. Something I had forgotten about. Frost. On my daily driver. Which is now parked outside. 6 AM and scrape, scrape, scrape. Sigh....the things we do for our labors of love. I wouldn't change anything though! I can't wait to start seeing progress on the Avanti. Just want to get at least one thing a day done. Yesterday was the move, today drain the gas and get started on the fuel tank removal so I can get it ready to be cleaned and sealed.

Also on tap for today - figure out why I can't post pics....hmmmmm.

[West Peterson]

I don't understand. You've posted photos in the beginning???

Posting photos takes about three steps.
When you hit "reply," scroll down to "Manage Attachments."
It will bring up a separate window to allow you to search your computer for your photos. Depending on the size of your photos (they need to be jpg), it could take a few seconds to load.
Then hit "Submit Reply"

Now, if you've done that and nothing happens, your photos may be too big. Scale them down first, and make sure they are jpg's.

If you still have problems, e-mail a photo to me and I'll let you know what the problem may be. StelvioGT at yahoo dot com

[SeventhSon]

Yes, I posted pics earlier using the procedure you outlined. I think it may be what you said, the pics are probably too big. They are JPEGS, just too large I bet. The earlier pics I posted were from other sources - these latest ones are from my own camera and are probably too big. I'll scale them down and try again. Thanks!

[Roger Zimmermann]

When the pictures are too large, a text in that box is coming saying it. Most of the time, I don't notice it and my comments about adding pictures are not neat!

[SeventhSon]

The Avanti move....

Re-sized the pics - success! Thanks, West!

[West Peterson]

I think you re-sized too much. I believe you're allowed for each photo to be about 1mb. When I click on your thumbnails, they don't come up much bigger, and they're pretty fuzzy looking.

[SeventhSon]

Hmmm...they look OK on my computer - about the size other pics I've seen on here are. I had several options, email, website, etc. I picked website. True, they were tiny files (like 50 kb) so I'll try different things and see what works best. Thanks for the input!

[SeventhSon]

While pushing the Avanti around yesterday we heard a skree, skree, skree coming from the left front as the car moved. So tonight I decided to see just what the front rotor looked like on that side since I hadn't had any of the wheels off the car yet. I jacked up the left front and before pulling the wheel I gave it a good shake up and down. Klunk, klunk went the king pin. Ah well, no real surprise there. I removed the wheel and the fun continued, the rotor being deeply pitted. Again, no surprise there.

I have always said that I always want to know where I stand. Now I know! Good thing about it all is that most, if not all of the parts are available and it's just a matter of rebuilding everything. Yank off the old parts and replace with new, stopping to clean and rust treat as you go. Looks like fun! Gotta stick to a budget though - don't want this getting away from me.

I foresee this being a three stage operation. First, a total refit of mechanical, with all systems replaced or rebuilt. Just about new everything. Then a breather to regain some financial footing (if not in the poorhouse at that point), then move on to the interior. Then a breather, then the body.

After the mechanical I'll do like West says, "Drive it like you hate it" 'cuz I probably will! Haha - not really!

[foxhole]

I think I have a set of rear leaf spring eye bushings kicking around, the real tiny ones. You can have them if you want if it helps your cause. PM me your address if you want them. Front ends arn't to bad to rebuild on those but the windsheild was one of the most horible experiences of my life due to a poor install and i belive some misalignment of the instalation of the roof skin. add in a poorly fitted aftermarket windsheild and a brand new rubber. I spent a few days cursing and wondering if it was even possible. I still remember as a kid the first time i saw one of those cars. I walked up to the back and wondered what kind of a car it was and why it had such giant back up lights. I walked around to the front to see what it looked like and it was a back too. I went around to the first back of the car and realized it was the front. It was like nothing i had ever seen before. I was Ten. The cars always kinda stuck in my mind after that and i grew a soft spot for them.

[SeventhSon]

Thanks foxhole, I took a quick look at those bushings the other day and, like everything else on the car, they're gonna have to be replaced! I'll contact you when I get further along if I don't already have a set. Thanks again!

[SeventhSon]

I came home at lunch today to pull the carb for rebuilding. Things went well enough, and as I was working on it and after I pulled the carb I could see where the gas smell was coming from. The base and inside of the intake manifold was wet with gas. In the pictures you can clearly see the gas inside the manifold (I had already wiped the carb mounting base off). All vacuum lines to the carb were, of course, hard and rotten, a couple broke right off.

Since the carb removal went smoothly I decided to push my luck and remove the gas from the tank. I placed an oil drain pan under the drain plug in the fuel line under the driver's door and removed the plug. The gas began draining into the pan and it soon became apparent that this fresh, premium fuel was going to provide very potent vapors. So, after a gallon or more drained out I replaced the drain plug and poured the gas in a gas can. By this point I was feeling about like the fellow we used to see who went by the moniker "High Test" and hung out behind the 7-11 huffing gas fumes. I decided that this was probably not the most sensible way to go about this part of the project and I vowed to complete the task a different way.

I've been checking out Studebaker International's catalog and I have found options as far as the brake rebuild. I'll probably go with the major rebuild kit which will have all the calipers, rotors, pads, cylinders, shoes, flexible lines, etc. It'll be all new, all original. Didn't do anything on the car tonight, but did devise a way to remove the rest of the gas from the car. I'll splice into the fuel line somewhere near the fuel pump with a 10+ foot section of rubber fuel line and run this out of the garage to the driveway apron where I will use a suction bulb or gravity to drain the rest of the fuel into a can, outside of the garage.

[SeventhSon]

Going a little off topic this morning to talk about my father. However, since he introduced all his sons to Studebakers I guess it's not too far off topic.

Once, when I was a little kid, I was watching my father clean out his wallet, getting rid of all those little slips of paper and receipts that collect and end up being useless. I spied a tiny black and white picture.
"What's this?", I asked.
"Oh, that's a ship I was on in the war that was hit by a kamikaze."
The picture showed a large ship with billowing smoke rising from it.
"Wow, you were on that?"
"Yeah, I was in the water at that point trying to keep from drowning."

My father went on to recount how the Japanese plane had been shot down and the pilot aimed his plane at the ship he was on in a kamikaze style attack. Over the years I would think about that picture from time to time and wish I knew more about the details of the attack.

As the internet became available I searched for Navy ships sunk during the war, there were multitudes of them. I asked my brother Brian, who had worked with my Dad for years, if he had any details. All he could tell me was that it was that the ship was a "Landing Ship Tank" or LST in Navy parlance. That narrowed it down and I was able to come up with 4 or 5 possible ships that it could have been. But without more information I could go no further.

A few years passed and I was looking through a bag of old pictures my mother had told me to take from her house. I found the little black and white picture my father had carried in his wallet all those years! Excitedly I ran for a magnifying glass. There was a number visible on the ship! I got my old list from the search years before and there it was: 738. I googled it, and found out the story.

Coming up: Part 2.

[SeventhSon]

December 15, 1944. 67 years ago today:

An invasion force is on the move, bringing men and materiel to invade the Japanese held island of Mindoro in the Philippines. Mindoro was wanted by American forces as a staging area for the re-taking of the Philippines.

My father, a member of the Army Air Corps, was on the LST-738, a navy ship slightly longer than an NFL football field, designed to carry heavy armament and other war materiel. The invasion force came under attack by Japanese planes not far from their objective. As the attacks from the Japanese intensified the commander ordered all men below deck. My father thought, "The hell with that, we're carrying airplane fuel!"

He stayed above deck. Japanese planes were attacking other ships in the invasion fleet. Most of the planes were taken care of by anti-aircraft fire from the ships. One plane, sputtering, made its way toward LST-738. The crew laid fire at it in a blistering attempt to "splash" her before she reached the ship. To no avail. My father watched the plane approach, the pilot obviously having trouble controlling it due to damage from so much fire laid upon it. My father thought the plane was too high and would fly right over the deck, but at the last moment the plane dropped and struck the ship just under the edge of the deck, flipped over and exploded on the deck. The explosion was white hot, my father went over the edge, either blown over by the force of the explosion or jumping over to get away from the fire.

He was in the water, unable to swim, flailing about, temporarily blinded. He grabbed hold of something and held on. Finally, a sailor in a lifeboat drew alongside him and pulled him into the little boat. He was saved, but still couldn't see, and wouldn't be able to for another 2 weeks.

Official accounts stated that the plane "drove" down into the ship and exploded. That contradicted what my father said, that the plane exploded on the deck. I found a book, "Attack & Conquer, The 8th Fighter Group In World War II", by John C. Stanaway and Lawrence J. Hickey that describes the events of the day. It quotes a young man, a Private in the Army, who was watching from a different vantage point on the deck of LST-738. He described the plane as a torpedo plane and said the the plane dropped its torpedo just before hitting the ship. That would explain the huge explosions and damage that caused the ship to be lost.

In a few months the war would effectively be over and my father was on his way home.

[SeventhSon]

Checked the mail last night and there was the new fuel pump from Studebaker International! Also, a letter from the dental insurance saying they would pay for my last visit, which is just about equal to what I paid for the fuel pump. So, I'm "even" on that deal! Love it when that happens!

[SeventhSon]

Kind of a light day on the Avanti today. Went to see my mother at the assisted living place and give her a gigantic box of candy for Christmas. I told her not to eat too much of it at one time. Right! She used to drive a '63 Studebaker Hawk. She loved that car. When I was 10 or 11 I went with my father and mother and a couple of siblings to look at the car when it was for sale. A body shop man owned it. It was flat black primer and was usually parked out on the street. A passing car got a little too close and hooked the rear fender well, ripping a 4 inch wide piece outward from the fender well. My father looked the car over and told the owner, "Fix that tear in the fender well and paint it and I'll give you 900 dollars for it.
The owner said, "Come back in a week." We went back in a week and the car was a beautiful dark Turquoise. The tear in the fender well was magically fixed, like it had never happened. Driving it home that first night on the Beltway (there's the Beltway again) we heard a "toot, toot". We looked and saw an Avanti flying by (they always fly by), resplendent in her multi-tone primer paint. Another Studebaker lover! This was in 1971.

I got to work on the Avanti some, removing the multiple screws hold the access panel to the fuel tank area. I wrung one off, have to drill one out, the rest came out ok. I placed three orders for parts this week with Studebaker International for a grand total of: A LOT!

More fun to come.....

[stude8]

I just browsed over this new thread about redoing your Avanti, it brought back a lot of memories of restoring the few I owned years ago. I'll attach a few images of cleaning up metal under body parts like the "Hog Troughs". This was not difficult once the body is off the frame. I don't know if your plans have that extreme a job in mind but the photos might help planning your job. *It only takes removing 16 or 18 3/8" bolts and four strong guys to lift it off.

This is 63RQ1325 where it sat in my driveway for a summer while the chassis was being redone. Up on 4 used "Grease Drums" I got from gas stations that did lots of lube jobs. They were heavy wall metal and held the body very well. We used various fence post lumber and spare steel wheels to jack the body to they right height for working under it.

If the hog troughs are rusted thru on yours repros are available even in stainless steel if you want a permanent cure.

Post your problems as they pop up, a few of us older Avanti guys can aim you in the right direction.
Stude8

[SeventhSon]

Thanks Stude8, it's always great to have the wealth of knowledge from the guys who have already done one (or three!). The driver's side hog trough is rusted through on mine, the other seems OK. There is a couple of "how to" articles that I have found showing the repairs undertaken on these. On mine I am going to try to fix it without removal of the body, as I don't want to undertake a body removal at this time. Maybe in a few years...

[SeventhSon]

I worked some more on getting the fuel tank out tonight. I drilled out the final screw holding the access panel and removed it. Pretty much what I had expected to find, some surface rust on the tank, petrified vent hoses, and a filler hose dry rotted and cracked. I have a new filler hose on the way, I'll be glad to get that replaced. But first, the tank must come out for a cleaning and sealing (I have that kit on the way also). No telling what kind of damage I'll find inside, I'm hoping, hoping that it's not too bad. I'll find out soon enough!

Probably won't get to do anything on the car tomorrow, as I am having a work Christmas thing, expected to take most of the day. I'll just hit it all the harder the next day!

[SeventhSon]

Well.

That was fun.

Jeez, does the tank ever get empty??!! I drained it from the in-line drain plug on the fuel line. Then I siphoned from the tank itself. That was on 2 separate days. Then today, I cut the rubber line at the fuel pump and gas started pouring out. So I drained that into a container until it stopped. Then I cut the rubber line where it leaves the bottom of the tank. Nothing much came out. So I proceeded with the removal of the tank.

Did I mention how much fun that was?

Then, as I was removing the tank more gas came out into the interior of the car. I put the tank in the back of a pickup truck to carry to a work area.

At the work area I was pouring more gas out of the tank into a can.

I think it's empty now. Maybe.