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Thread: Doodle Bug Scooters

  1. #76
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post

    Any tips on what was between the lever on the mechanical governor and the lever on the back of the carb would be a great help, and what all else may have been part of the mechanical governor set up, the Briggs manual just shows different components some for mechanical, some for the air-vane type, but nothing cohesive to re-assemble, especially if you have (like me) parts missing.

    I bought a donor motor on ebay, it's an NP but not for a D.B., air vane governor, elbowed carb, rope start, I mainly got it for it's attached cylinder shaped fuel tank and seeing it's a runner I thought I could switch the carb out as well.
    Doesn't help me with the governor though it has some kind of long (4") adjustment screw with a knurled knob on top which 'looks' like it would fit on my motor, for what I do not know.
    Sometimes it feels like I'm pretty close but then the devil is in the details!
    There were two types of mechanical governor setups. The one you described with the long screw and the knurled knob on the top is not the right one. You need the one that has a little lever with several holes in it that is attached to the carb. It attaches by wire to another similar rod thatnis, in turn, hooked by spring to the actual governor assembly. The mechanical governor is built into the crankcase and is driven by a small gear off of the cam. This is difficult to explain, but would probably make sense if you had the diagram from the Briggs manual.

  2. #77

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter Guy View Post
    I'm really starting to think I'm wrong about the carb.

    I went over all of my photos and literature tonight and everything shows Supers with the elbowed carb. I even have some copies of photos of the Supers going down the assembly line that clearly show them.

    However, I have seen Doodle Bugs running those carbs. In fact, my early production model A came my way with the same carb you have, so go figure. It's possible they worked fine or were later (mid 1950s?) replacements since I know for sure it was the wrong carb for my A. The N series Briggs engines were built from 1940-1954, so its very reasonable to assume that over 14 years there was more than one carb that worked.

    All of that said, you might want to go back to the elbowed carb. The hardware you have works, the air cleaner fits, the choke rod fits, etc. Just put the throttle wheel on it and it should be ok.

    I'll see what I can find for you on the mechanical governor setup. I'm sure I've got something.

    EDIT: I don't have any decent photos or diagrams (electronically) of how this goes together. It's not coveted in the scooter manual, but the Briggs Operating and Maintenance Manual for the NP explains it and shows diagrams over several pages. This is also probably the only way to determine what, if any, parts you are missing. Do you have that manual?

    Also, the flexible extension piece on the exhaust should be about 5" and is welded directly to the muffler that you have.
    You know it's just like Dorothy, all you have to do is click your heels and it was there all the time...I was so intent on looking at the parts list that I gave up before I saw the diagram on page 11, Mechanical Governor Hook-up--Plate No.8, Fig.B. Fantastic! It looks like I have everything except the item called out as 'Link' but it looks like something I could make....

    The carb issue is threefold, the one that was attached to the engine without the elbow is dry and the choke butterfly is badly corroded although it functions, gasket kit and seals at the needles minimum, choke butterfly is probably o.k. but I'd have to remove/replace the 'freeze-plug' to fix it.
    The elbowed carb that came in the box of parts is even worse for wear, a dedicated strip down and soda blast would see it restored but even more work than the first.
    The elbowed carb on the donor motor is a runner, so I'm really looking for an excuse to use it without compromising the originality of the engine for when it was built.
    I'm not sure as I haven't had them side by side looking down the throat but the non-elbow deal may be a bigger carb, I seem to think the throat is smaller in the elbow deal, maybe that was a hop-up/add-on in the world of early '50's Briggs'.
    In the 25 years or so that I was told this scooter was ridden by the family (late '40's to early '70's) maybe 'Dad' when he was younger a. disconnected the governor. b. put a larger carburetor on it. and c. junked the muffler and put a straight-thru 14" Romex pipe on it!
    How cool is that! (I'm only speculating btw).....but that must have been the bitchin-est Doodlebug on Paradise Rd!
    Thanks for the replies Scooter Guy, you've really helped me out here.

  3. #78

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Just had word through the old mini bike forum that the Super never had the mono body carb.
    That was from Don Jackson through a fellow Doodlebugger who was just there.
    So it was either a replacement (why would you replace instead of rebuild?) or a performance enhancement.

  4. #79
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    Just had word through the old mini bike forum that the Super never had the mono body carb.
    That was from Don Jackson through a fellow Doodlebugger who was just there.
    So it was either a replacement (why would you replace instead of rebuild?) or a performance enhancement.
    Good to know "for sure." If anyone knows, it would be Don.

    I did find a couple of non-factory photos in my collection with the mono body carb and, as I mentioned earlier, my model A came to me with that carb on it, so it must have been fairly common to swap these out. I'm not sure if it was performance or what.

  5. #80

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I pulled the mono body off the engine and compared it with the elbowed carb at the main throttle butterfly, it looks exactly the same.....maybe new carburetors were a cheap option when the throttle axle wore out or something....I think this calls for an old-timer with a razor sharp memory who also happened to own a Doodlebug whose carb started playing up around 1952.....
    This IS keeping me awake at night trying to figure what happened......

  6. #81
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I also have a Doodlebug. Bought it many years ago at an auction. Unfortunately, all I have is the rolling frame. The rear wheel is not correct. I know that it would cost an awful lot to restore it correctly, so I don't know whether I want to just rebuild it into a running scooter or pass it on to someone who wants to go all the way with it.
    Here are the numbers off the tag.

    Model G-1046 D

    Serial# 107001

    Type 24-5501 D

    It had the Hiawatha tag so I'm guessing that the G stands for Gambles and the D is the model.

    I sandblasted the frame when I first got it, but it has been sitting in a barn and needs it to be done again. I'm not sure what year it is.
    Thanks for any other info you can give me.
    Tom
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  7. #82
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Anything new?

    The last post on the topic was September, shortly after the 25th annual Doodle Bug Reunion in Webster City, Iowa.

    For those interested, the Doodle Bug Club of America is working on a website at wcdoodlebug.com

    The dates for the 2012 Doodle Bug Reunion are September 13-15, 2012 at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds in Webster City.

  8. #83
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    Smile Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Suppose I might qualify as an Old Timer or? At 70 years young I remember well the Doodle-Bug as My father bought one Brand new from Western Auto In downtown Dallas in March 1948. He rode it home from there to our home near Love Field. I started riding it back then when I was still only 5 years old! I studied that little scooter well! It had an Briggs Stratton Manual for its NP engine that explained the Four Stroke Principal with drawings. That bode me well in making repairs to the little Scooter. It was used for years, both of my little brothers rode it also and was still in use, in the 70s. My baby brother was 15 years younger than I and he rode it in the 60's thru early 70's.
    Somewhere I have pictures of it when new with my Dad in his suit astride the Doodle-Bug,and myself standing behined it,with my younger brother sitting side saddle on the seat. It was our familys only means of transportation back then! Will try to find those pictures, though I am not the best at getting them online.

    One other minor detail is that I still have the Doodle-Bug in its entirety. And my memories are sharp on it and it's details, though I usually can't remember what I had for breakfast or even if I ate breakfast by Noon!
    From going back and looking through some post I can say that the scooter had Elbow carb set up and had flex pipe welded to small muffler that ran out at rear of scooter down low near rear wheel. It was registered and ridden in Dallas during the 40's to and from work by my Dad! Over the years I have also built up other scooters utilizing the Briggs up to and Including the Model 8 which developed far more horsepower than the original 1 and 1/2 horse power of that NP. The original NP is intact on my original Doodle-Bug. These were Cast-Iron engines,the side shrouds were Aluminum on our scooter, but were melted when our garage burnt down in 1959! They were off of the little scooter and laying on a shelf at rear of garage that day! The seat is still intact in it's entirety, cover and all; though well worn, and dis-colored
    Last edited by triumphleroy; March 11th, 2012 at 10:29. Reason: additions
    "I'm Just A Kid Again Doing What I did Again"

  9. #84
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    The 26th Doodle Bug Reunion is coming up in Webster City, Iowa.

    September 13-15, 2012 at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds. See link for more information:Doodle Bug Reunion

  10. #85
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    The Doodle Bug Reunion is this weekend!

    September 13-15, 2012 at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds in Webster City, IA. It's the place to be if you're a Doodle Bugger.

    Hope to see you there!

  11. #86

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Hi Everybody , I recently purchased a doodlebug "basket case" in my country (Brazil), and I thought I would never see one this here. I started a search in the web ( should do the contrary right??rsrsrs), and found this wonderfull thread about this scooters. I will problably have to purchase some manuals first to id and before start to restore and buy parts. Here goes some pics of it. I think there is some non original parts and a lot of it missing but anyway , that´s the fun it right?( Iwonder if it was originaly painted black or just red?
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    Last edited by ANTONIOGMFCO; October 15th, 2012 at 15:55.

  12. #87
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    A Doodle Bug in Brazil...how very interesting.

    I wonder how it got there. Did Brazil have Gamble or Western Auto Stores in the 1940s? Both of those companies were based in the midwestern United States and both grew rapidly, but I didn't know either to have a truly international presence. Otherwise, an individual or company imported it...and I wonder when that was. Could it have been in Brazil since new or do you think it came there much more recently?

    Speaking of Doodle Bugs outside of the USA, I did recently confirm that Doodle Bug Scooters were sold new in Canada through a hardware store chain there in the 1940s called Macleod's. I had wondered for a long time and finally found a catalog offering the scooters for sale there. It is unclear, however, if Beam Manufacturing (who actually built the scooter) supplied them or if Macleod's stores were buying and flipping scooters that were actually built for Gamble Stores. I am looking for information on any connection between Macleod's and Gamble's or Western Auto...it may just be the Canadian Gamble's brand or some such thing.

    EDIT: As to your paint questions...they were ALL red when new.

    EDIT #2: According to the Minnesota Historical Society, Gambles purchased Macleods in 1945. Macleods had 270 stores that operated in Western Canada. The MHS has no evidence that Gambles ever operated in any other location outside of the United States.
    Last edited by Scooter Guy; October 16th, 2012 at 15:58. Reason: Added paint information

  13. #88

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Hi Scooter Guy, problably someone brought this one from USA.There wasn´t any of that stores here in Brazil. Do you know if the manual available at Yesterday´s Rides if enough to restore my DB? Or do you know the cost of the Stephen Elliott Doodlebug "Bible"? For now I have only the pics in the web for reference but certanly I will need something more complete to do a full restoration. MY little son is crazy to help me out on this one as you can see by the pics....rsrsrsrs
    Anyway, mine have a adaptation ( or not) to start the engine by using a cord? is that correct? Here we have this Mercedes TRuck red paint , it seems right by looking at the web but it still has some paint in the wheels so I can do a matching color.
    Thanks for your help , and I will try to post some news about this resto.
    Regards
    Antonio

  14. #89
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Start by getting the Doodle Bug "Bible" from Steve Elliott. He was selling them for $50 at the Doodle Bug Reunion. It contains all of the manuals and parts lists and also contains the owners manual for the engines and for the accessories.

    Yesterday's Rides manufactures reproduction parts or can restore your original parts. Their website has lots of good information. Don is the only direct source for parts. Jim Kilau in Minnesota sells Don's parts, if that makes more sense for you. Buying used parts (like on Ebay) is a real crapshoot. There is really no telling if the parts are usable or not until they show up at your house. I've spent some serious money on some original parts only to discover on arrival that they were being unloaded because they were irreparable.

    I don't know where you really want to go in this restoration, but would caution you that most of the Doodle Bug scooters seen online are not completely correct...even some of them billed as "completely restored." I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, but even some of the Doodle Bugs that have won awards in AACA class judging aren't 100% correct. It's best to study the factory literature and ask people like Don Jackson (owner/operator of Yesterday's Rides) a lot of questions. I'm happy to help, too, if I can.

    The engine is correct (according to the tag), but should have a kick starter. They did not use a rope/pull starter.

    The paint you'll probably have to source locally. See if your paint shop can figure out what "Cessna red" (as in the airplane) is...that's the right color. Going to the Doodle Bug Reunion is funny...you can see Doodle Bugs in every shade of red you can imagine.

  15. #90

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Hi Scooter Guy, thanks for all the explanations!! I will try to contact Steve and Don, send some pics and start a long list of missing parts...
    About the paint both wheels have original paint and it will be easy to sort it out at our local paint stores. I will try to restore it to original as possible , some big parts are impossible to import since the shipping and taxes make it too expensive. I noticed that the handle bar have holes at both sides, but acording the model it should only have 1 control for acell. and brake. When I travel I try to visit as many as possible museums and classic motorcycle meetings. You allways find many new friends and info from helpfull people like You. My last trip was to "Autoclasica" at Buenos Aires Angentina. You couldn´t believe how many cars and bikes they have there.
    Many thanks
    Antonio

  16. #91

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I am new to the group and am glad to have found out that there are others interested in the hobby. I recently obtained an early DBug that has a Briggs and Stratton NP engine. It came with a fluid drive clutch that is broken. It would be nice to find out if anyone repairs these clutches, but my main question has to do with the engine. Can anyone tell me what the diameter of the crankshaft should be for those engines that had a fluid clutch? I am wondering about the diameter at the end of the shaft where the clutch is mounted.

    Thanks

  17. #92
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    The correct crankshaft size is 7/8"

    The clutches can be rebuilt and repaired by (I know I sound like a broken record here) Don Jackson at Yesterday's Rides Metalworks. He has done one for me and is going to do another for me soon.

    Also a word of caution to anyone looking for a fluid drive clutch: a similar fluid drive unit was used on washing machines (also manufactured by Beam Manufacturing), but they are 1/2" instead of 7/8". I actually purchased a washing machine fluid drive once because I got caught up in an auction and didn't carefully check the size beforehand. Oops.

  18. #93

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Thanks Scooter Guy for the quick reply! The reason I asked about the crankshaft size is that mine is actually 1/2" and I found that quite odd. That now raises another question. Since mine apparently is for a washing machine will it work on the Doodlebug if I have it repaired? Does it have similar operating characteristics to the fluid clutches for the DB?

  19. #94
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by TLowe View Post
    Thanks Scooter Guy for the quick reply! The reason I asked about the crankshaft size is that mine is actually 1/2" and I found that quite odd. That now raises another question. Since mine apparently is for a washing machine will it work on the Doodlebug if I have it repaired? Does it have similar operating characteristics to the fluid clutches for the DB?
    As far as I can tell, the clutches are identical except for the difference in the crankshaft size they are intended for. I do know they can be repaired and the 1/2" can be refit for 7/8" to work with a Doodle Bug. Give Don Jackson a call about that. He and I have discussed exactly that operation. Every now and then he has a real fluid clutch around, too...worth asking about.

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