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Thread: Doodle Bug Scooters

  1. #51

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunpilot View Post
    Marc,
    Neat project. Your's looks very similar to the better of the two doodlebugs I got last year. Like you I was curious about the paint. I'm sure Scooter Guy can steer us accurately, but somewhere I read that the correct color was the same as a red stripe used on old Cessna airplanes. I had my auto paint supplier look it up and he came up with Cessna Flag Red as the color. I had a small amount mixed in acrylic enamel so I could test it. Looks pretty close to me. Just thought I'd pass it on.
    vr
    Greg
    Thanks for the info Greg! After a false start I have cleared bench space (this weekend) in my garage and begun the rebuild. First order of business was to sand off the surface rust that had appeared from almost 5 years of sitting with gray primer and re-coat. I was able to remove the spark plug from the engine without causing damage, also the bolt that holds the engine id plate!
    Todays task is to empty my storage shed and find the rest of the parts, shouldn't be too difficult I have them in rubbermaid bins, just a bear to get at.
    I'll start posting pics, stay tuned!

  2. #52

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Here's a question for others with Supers, this wasn't painted red like the rest of the bike when I got it. It looked to me like it might be a later add-on to support the kickstand, do you think it's original or should I grind it off before paint and deal with the stand later?
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  3. #53

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Here's a reference photo from my first batch, what do you all think?
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  4. #54

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Here's some early progress shots

    I am doing as much of this resto as I can myself, I know the purists will cringe and others will cry real tears for the fate of this poor little machine but I will do nothing that isn't completely reversible (mainly paint) and will stay as true to the original as I can without going into third world debt.....

    Thanks again to Gunpilot for the tip on the paint but guess what, Orchard Supply Hardware brand 'Bright Red' enamel in a spray can is a dead-on match, believe me I do color matching of printwork for a living and look at the handlebar clamp in front of the wheels in the photo, it's still original the wheels are newly sprayed.

    I could have the scooter professionally done but I have two reasons not to (besides being cheap) the first being the side skirts are kind of knocked about (see pic) but they are original and I'd like to keep them that way and I don't want them to look out of place on a candy-dipped paint job, second reason is I like the idea of the dull sheen of 1 part enamel, in this application, look at any original photo even in b&w and you'll see what I mean about the shine, paint just wasn't that shiny in the old days, especially on farm implements

    I cut a new seat pan today and I am on the hunt for new springs to redo the seat correctly, it's proving difficult to find the right size but the originals I have are still quite strong and I will re-use those if I can't find new ones.

    Anyway, thanks all for the place to talk about this, any advice/heckling/encouragement gladly accepted.
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  5. #55

    I hope I'm not being inappropriate

    I seem to be the only one here lately, I hope it's o.k. with everyone me taking up the bandwidth with my personal project.
    Here's my task this weekend, restoring nuts and bolts....a lot of the nuts are nylocks, I will try and find replacements all fine thread, my favorite place which may be useful to others is McMaster-Carr.
    I also have a broken wire hook (third in from right looks like an upside down question mark) that I'm not sure can be utilized as I don't know right now where it's meant to go, the thread has broken off an inch from the end, effectively making it an inch shorter than intended, but it looks as though it's meant to be adjustable so we'll see, I guess.
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  6. #56

    Fun with wheels and tires

    Hey it's Friday night and the kids are asleep so I've been having fun with my wheels and tires.
    I acquired two Coker tires and tubes a couple years ago (moved house since then) and I have my wheels ready to mount the tires on.
    Have a look what the deal is....
    First tire on the front wheel mounted just nice....but would not inflate, new tire, new tube I couldn't figure it out, unbolted the rims and had a look, there was a split in the tube, not as bad as the pic only about an eighth long but nevertheless, new g-d tube...
    Anyway, got the other (new) tube and all went well, front wheel all shiny and ready.
    Well that got me thinking I should try and inflate the 63 year old tires, wouldn't you know it they blew up just fine, the tires are hard, mis-shapen and cracked but the tubes are like new....have a look at the pics.
    Also for those who may have 'borderline' ok tires check the difference between the original General tires and the repops, quite a difference I think....Coker on the left.
    Oh yeah, check out how the original General valve extension for the rear wheel polished up (first pic) I'm happy!
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  7. #57

    Laguna Seca Historics Sunday 8-21

    Have a look at this taken at Laguna Seca on Sunday, I wasn't able to talk to the owner unfortunately.
    Looks like an early frame with the push-pull cutout switch but Super handlebars.....?
    This is the kind of resto look I'm going for, showing it's age a little but in good condition (I'm painting my engine cowl black though)
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  8. #58
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    Re: Fun with wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    Also for those who may have 'borderline' ok tires check the difference between the original General tires and the repops, quite a difference I think....Coker on the left.

    Oh yeah, check out how the original General valve extension for the rear wheel polished up (first pic) I'm happy!
    Sorry folks...didn't realize there was so much posting going on in this thread without me. I thought I had it setup to email me when there was new activity...maybe not.

    Anyway about the tires...

    There were two different General Jumbo Jr. Tires used on the original Doodle Bugs. The "fat" tire is supposed to be on the front and the narrow one goes on the back. So, your Coker tires aren't wrong, they're just a copy of the rear tire.

    Good luck with the rest of the project!

  9. #59
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    Re: Laguna Seca Historics Sunday 8-21

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    Have a look at this taken at Laguna Seca on Sunday, I wasn't able to talk to the owner unfortunately.
    Looks like an early frame with the push-pull cutout switch but Super handlebars.....?
    This is the kind of resto look I'm going for, showing it's age a little but in good condition (I'm painting my engine cowl black though)
    This one is definitely a Super. It just has the wrong kill switch on it, which is not uncommon. If you really get to looking closely, 99% of the "restored" Doodle Bugs have something wrong with them or not factory correct. Engine shroud should be black, as has been mentioned. Still a nice machine and those details are easily fixed.

  10. #60
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by bchevy View Post
    Look what I found today! It came with registrations from 1967, this was titled! It has Western Auto on the neck.
    I saw that one...

    It was in Maryland, right?

    I'm not sure that the engine is correct on that. It looks like a later replacement modified to work with the kick start base. Can you confirm engine model # ???

    Nonetheless, it's not too bad. Lots of original stuff there.

  11. #61

    Re: Fun with wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter Guy View Post
    Anyway about the tires...

    There were two different General Jumbo Jr. Tires used on the original Doodle Bugs. The "fat" tire is supposed to be on the front and the narrow one goes on the back. So, your Coker tires aren't wrong, they're just a copy of the rear tire.

    Good luck with the rest of the project!
    Thanks for the 'Good Luck', the tires are on, they fit and will work, I must have had two 'front' tires on this one then, I was talking to the guys at the Coker display at Laguna Seca, they had some really nice stuff there, early 1900's race tires and some awesome whitewall radials with it must have been a 4" stripe.
    I have spent the weekend wire wheel buffing all my nuts and bolts, a little tricky with the smaller ones, I was under the bench more than once finding spring washers that got flicked out of the needlenose pliers
    So I'm back to the finish work, laying on the red aerosol, I also picked up a correct for Doodlebug set of stickers (not waterslide but very good) for the engine, fuel tank and air filter, black spraying is next after a couple pinholes in the gas tank are repaired.
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  12. #62

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    My D.B. had spent quite a number of years in a field under an oak tree, luckily it was in California but still everything had a thick crust of rust.
    Here's my fixture collection, the throttle and brake handles and cables are next, I won't know if I have everything until I begin assembly but the coolest thing is the paperwork that came with this machine, I can assemble from the photo's in the manual and identify the parts I may be missing, YRMW has the parts diagram on line (thanks Don!), but this is very helpful 'in the shop' and all. The biggest help will be the B&S manual, somewhere along the life of this machine someone did a number on the governor, (dang kids, probably grandparents by now!)
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  13. #63

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Hi all,

    I'm new to the site, but I'm glad to see it's here for us Doodlebug fanatics. I 've been restoring what I believe to be a Model C, although it won't be 'original' in any way. I'm not that committed, and besides, to try and make it original costs a whole lot of dough!!

    I'll try attaching an image of my restoration so far. I've had to manufacture some small items (throttle wheel, a special stud to replace a stripped out thread for the cylinder head), but the scooter was mostly there.

    I'm missing the C model right-and left-hand shrouds, and the floor mats. Ignition switch and little box is also missing, but coming together (another little manufacturing job ahead). It's lots of fun, but the most fun is driving the little scooter!! I fell in love with the scooter when I first saw one when I was 9 years old, back in 1948. They're great fun.

  14. #64
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    Here's a question for others with Supers, this wasn't painted red like the rest of the bike when I got it. It looked to me like it might be a later add-on to support the kickstand, do you think it's original or should I grind it off before paint and deal with the stand later?
    The piece circled in the photo should not be there. I'm not sure if you left it and painted over it or not, but it isn't original though it probably isn't hurting anything.

    You wouldn't believe some of the crazy things I've seen welded all over these scooters!

  15. #65

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I ended up leaving that welded on piece as it looks 'useful' and will be hidden by the belt guard anyway. I have finished paint on the frame, replaced the rear wheel bearings and cleaned and re-oiled the felt wick and installed a new rear axle, the old one was quite badly worn. Check out my Resto thread here.
    1948 Doodlebug 'Super' resto. - OldMiniBikes.com Forum

  16. #66
    Motor Scooter Collector Scooter Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    The Doodle Bug Reunion was last weekend (Sept. 15-17) in Webster City, Iowa. Did anyone here attend?

    I was there on Thursday and Friday.

  17. #67

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I mapquested it and it was a 30 hour drive from here, then I looked at airfare and it was twice as much as a trip to Hawaii......so I didn't go.
    What was it like, I hope there was a big attendance, was there much of a swapmeet?
    I have a friend in need of an original engine for a '46...

  18. #68
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    I mapquested it and it was a 30 hour drive from here, then I looked at airfare and it was twice as much as a trip to Hawaii......so I didn't go.
    What was it like, I hope there was a big attendance, was there much of a swapmeet?
    I have a friend in need of an original engine for a '46...

    I understand the distance issue. My home is a good 950 something miles from Webster City, but to be completely candid, my reason for attending this year was two fold. First, I was picking up a scooter that Don Jackson had been working on for me. This was a much better arrangement for me than driving from TX to Oregon or having the scooter crated and shipped. Second, I had a wedding in the area (within 30 miles of Webster City) that I needed to attend with my wife.

    Air travel to the area is expensive because there is no good way to get there without changing planes and taking a puddle jumper. Closest major airports are Minneapolis and Omaha, both about 200 miles away. You can fly into Des Moines or Waterloo but you'll still have to rent a car for the last 75-80 miles.

    Thursday was pretty light in terms of numbers. I was there pretty early on though, and they weren't completely setup yet. Maybe 15 people around and 5-6 scooters. Friday was much more active. There were probably 100 or so people around when I was there (mid-day). Mostly guys 60+, but handful of wives and few younger folks were along.

    The guys were in and out all day looking at the bikes, talking, and riding around the fairgrounds. There were also some formal organized rides through town with escort vehicles (I did not go on any of them). I hate to be too critical of it, but I would describe the event was sort of a free-for-all with no real rules or schedule.

    The swap meet portion was very small. There were maybe 5-6 people actually there selling and trading. Don Jackson and Jim Kilau were there with reproduction parts and decals. Another person had more random bits and pieces, another couple were selling engine parts, and another had two complete engines for sale...one Briggs and one Clinton. I bought a couple of small items...that's it.

    That said, I enjoyed the event. I met some interesting people and always pick up little bits and pieces of interesting information about the scooter. There were probably 65 or so different scooters around at the peak...maybe a few more.

    It had real small town charm. I loved it. Would an event like that be worth 30 hours driving or the headaches that come with flying in? That's a tough one.

  19. #69

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Thanks for the rundown on the event, anything like that where enthusiasts get together is great in my book, I once flew to the U.K. to attend the Isle of Wight scooter rally but there were in excess of 5,000 vintage Lambretta's and Vespa's, which kind of made it worthwhile (plus I had relatives to visit).
    I think Webster City could be a stopover on an RV vacation or something if planned right.
    Any idea on what they were asking for the Briggs engine?
    I've been working on mine, I have a linkage missing between the mechanical governor and the carburetor and I'm in a quandry over if I have the right carb (I got two with the bike, both different)...anyway here's a couple of pictures, a 'before and after' deal.
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  20. #70
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post
    Any idea on what they were asking for the Briggs engine?
    I've been working on mine, I have a linkage missing between the mechanical governor and the carburetor and I'm in a quandry over if I have the right carb (I got two with the bike, both different)...anyway here's a couple of pictures, a 'before and after' deal.
    The price tag on the Briggs engine (restored) was $1500, I think. The Clinton was higher, I believe $2,000. They were not sold as far as I know. In part, I think, because of this:

    There were two distinct groups of people there...the riders and the restoration/preservation crowd. The restoration& preservation guys tended not to ride their machines, while the riders (obviously) were riding. Thing is, just about everyone there had what they wanted and needed so there didn't seem to be many bikes or parts trading hands. The riders were almost all on modified machines with modern engines and clutches (torque convertors). However, most of those folks remarked that they had their restored machines at home and brought the modded machine along so they could ride.

    I actually really enjoyed seeing the unrestored original machines as much as anything.

    ANYWAY, about your carb...

    There were two versions (surprise!). The one in your photos is a later carb and is correct for a Super. I call it a 'one piece,' as there is no separate "elbow" connecting the carb to the air cleaner as there is on the early carbs.

    If I've learned one thing about these machines, it is that there was an amazing amount of subtle variation that occured in the 2 1/2 years these were in production. They were just not consistent, so there are multiple ways to put together a "correct" Doodle Bug, especially when comparing an early model A to a late bike like the model E Super.

    Your work on the engine looks good. You just need the flexible extension piece for that muffler, and you'll be good to go. Oh, and if you want to get detailed, the oil filler cap is painted blue and the drain is painted yellow.

  21. #71
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    One other thing I thought of...

    If you're re-doing the engine ID tag, your model type is 306715 (for the Super).

  22. #72

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter Guy View Post
    ANYWAY, about your carb...

    There were two versions (surprise!). The one in your photos is a later carb and is correct for a Super. I call it a 'one piece,' as there is no separate "elbow" connecting the carb to the air cleaner as there is on the early carbs.

    You just need the flexible extension piece for that muffler, and you'll be good to go. Oh, and if you want to get detailed, the oil filler cap is painted blue and the drain is painted yellow.
    Thanks for the tip on the carb, there are two things that had me asking questions, the first is the nylon 'not spring loaded' choke lever, obviously designed to be turned by hand instead of pulled by the attached lever that exits out the right hand 'skirt'. Also the air filter bolt I have with it is too short by 1/2 an inch, now I say it came with two carbs, the other 'elbow type', the air filter and bolt were in a box of bits.....the filter and bolt fits the 'elbowed' carb.....
    The only thing pointing to the one-piece being the correct one is that it was at one time painted black, you can still see some remnant of that, which is I believe correct.
    Thanks for the heads up on the oil filler and drain, I had become aware of that and I actually found a pin-head sized flake of blue on the filler, which I have baggied for color match!
    I was able to remove the head without damaging the gasket, good thing as I have not been able to find a replacement and gave it a de-coke, it was a little oily, I haven't had this engine running yet but it may be a smoker!
    I tensioned it all back down correctly at 200 inch lbs (I figured 16ft 8in lbs)) in the correct order from my Briggs manual.
    Wow, $1500 for the engine is a surprise, I'm sure they did take it home and I understand your view on why.
    My engine came with a straight pipe, around 6 inches long with a 14" length of flexible pipe braised to it, I'm sure it's electrical 'Romex' and shouldn't be too hard to find.
    The only thing that is really beating me up is the paint on the front fender, I have sanded and repainted that thing probably 8 times and I cannot get the finish I want, the rest of the frame is beautiful, it's the only thing stopping final assembly!!!!!!


    306715......you made me go look! It has the original tag, a little scratched up but I'm leaving it. Thanks!
    Last edited by marc1959; September 27th, 2011 at 00:29. Reason: added post

  23. #73
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Quote Originally Posted by marc1959 View Post

    Thanks for the tip on the carb, there are two things that had me asking questions, the first is the nylon 'not spring loaded' choke lever, obviously designed to be turned by hand instead of pulled by the attached lever that exits out the right hand 'skirt'. Also the air filter bolt I have with it is too short by 1/2 an inch, now I say it came with two carbs, the other 'elbow type', the air filter and bolt were in a box of bits.....the filter and bolt fits the 'elbowed' carb.....

    The only thing pointing to the one-piece being the correct one is that it was at one time painted black, you can still see some remnant of that, which is I believe correct.



    My engine came with a straight pipe, around 6 inches long with a 14" length of flexible pipe braised to it, I'm sure it's electrical 'Romex' and shouldn't be too hard to find.
    The only thing that is really beating me up is the paint on the front fender, I have sanded and repainted that thing probably 8 times and I cannot get the finish I want, the rest of the frame is beautiful, it's the only thing stopping final assembly!!!!!!

    306715......you made me go look! It has the original tag, a little scratched up but I'm leaving it. Thanks!
    Your carb is right, but I'm with you on your concerns: I don't understand the nylon choke lever (have seen those) and I've experience the same issue with the air cleaner bolt. I don't have a Super of my own at the moment, or I'd go check it to compare notes with you. I'll check out some of the photos I have and see if I can find anything interesting.

    The exhaust you have on it is correct, you just need to add that extension piece. However, 14" seems too long. I'll have to check mine tonight and see what it is. Yes, it is basically Romex type electrical conduit, but is the smoother version, not the one with the rounded rings or "ribs" on it. It just helps direct the exhaust out the back of the bike rather than blowing it straight under the seat and between the side panels.

    Good luck on the rest of it and the paint. It sounds like you're really close to done.

  24. #74

    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    Even the Super in the Owners manual has the elbowed carb, but it also has the brake drum and kick start on the left hand side (flipped negative I guess).....

    Any tips on what was between the lever on the mechanical governor and the lever on the back of the carb would be a great help, and what all else may have been part of the mechanical governor set up, the Briggs manual just shows different components some for mechanical, some for the air-vane type, but nothing cohesive to re-assemble, especially if you have (like me) parts missing.

    I bought a donor motor on ebay, it's an NP but not for a D.B., air vane governor, elbowed carb, rope start, I mainly got it for it's attached cylinder shaped fuel tank and seeing it's a runner I thought I could switch the carb out as well.
    Doesn't help me with the governor though it has some kind of long (4") adjustment screw with a knurled knob on top which 'looks' like it would fit on my motor, for what I do not know.
    Sometimes it feels like I'm pretty close but then the devil is in the details!
    Last edited by marc1959; September 27th, 2011 at 21:19.

  25. #75
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    Re: Doodle Bug Scooters

    I'm really starting to think I'm wrong about the carb.

    I went over all of my photos and literature tonight and everything shows Supers with the elbowed carb. I even have some copies of photos of the Supers going down the assembly line that clearly show them.

    However, I have seen Doodle Bugs running those carbs. In fact, my early production model A came my way with the same carb you have, so go figure. It's possible they worked fine or were later (mid 1950s?) replacements since I know for sure it was the wrong carb for my A. The N series Briggs engines were built from 1940-1954, so its very reasonable to assume that over 14 years there was more than one carb that worked.

    All of that said, you might want to go back to the elbowed carb. The hardware you have works, the air cleaner fits, the choke rod fits, etc. Just put the throttle wheel on it and it should be ok.

    I'll see what I can find for you on the mechanical governor setup. I'm sure I've got something.

    EDIT: I don't have any decent photos or diagrams (electronically) of how this goes together. It's not coveted in the scooter manual, but the Briggs Operating and Maintenance Manual for the NP explains it and shows diagrams over several pages. This is also probably the only way to determine what, if any, parts you are missing. Do you have that manual?

    Also, the flexible extension piece on the exhaust should be about 5" and is welded directly to the muffler that you have.
    Last edited by Scooter Guy; September 27th, 2011 at 22:11. Reason: Additional information

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