[Dave@Moon]

My long term restoration project is a 1970 Triumph TR6. I plan on redoing the car absolutly stock, changing only the interior color from black to a more appropriate (stock) tan. However, I have a dilemma. Presently, the car has no seat belts.<P>I plan on showing this car some, but touring and ralleying it as much as possible. One thing about the TR6, however, are the terrible seat belts that came with the car. They were among the first retractible locking type belts on th market and they simply weren't up to the job. The mechanism corroded rapidly insiide the retractor and they were largely useless within the first 1-2 years of the car. It's now somewhat rare to find origional belts in the car at all, and almost unheard of to find them in working order. Most people who used the belts found them lacking and eventually pitched them. The sets that are still around mainly survived out of neglect.<P>I have a set of replacement non-retracting aftermarket belts (new) I can use. These are the best pieces available in the U.S. for the car. There are reproduction origional type belts availble in Europe, but they are very difficult to obtain, expensive and technically illegal (they're not DOT approved and seemingly can't be approved because of the design). Origional belts have been showing up recently on eBay in fair to rough condition, selling for about $200.00 a set. Some of these postings say the belts still work, but for how long is open to question.<P>What is the reccommendation for a situation like this?

[John N. Packard]

Dave,<BR> Go with the aftermarket belts. As a safety feature you need something that will protect you. Install them neat and pretty and you should be okay.<P>jnp

[Jan Arnett]

I agree with the aftermarket. If they are done right and are the right color judges should not take off points. I believe AACA judgeing allows for safety equipment like fire extinquishers and seat belts. I am putting seat belts in my T, Star, and Moon and have put aftermarkets in my 64 Comet. Make sure the mounting points are solid as this is usually the weakest link.<BR>Jan

[ply33]

For judging it sounds like the rub is that seatbelts were, if not standard, certainly available from the factory. If I understand the general logic behind the judging standards that means that factory type belts would be what the judges are looking for.<P>If you are not into judging, put in the safest belts you can find that are reasonably appropriate. If you are into judged shows, then I don't know what you should do. Perhaps RonBarn or Howard S. could comment about this.

[rcirilli]

Ron and Howard will probably comment but my understanding in judging is basically this. We don't take off for seat belts but some common sense should be used. If it is a popular car then a reproduction or something resembling the original will be available. If you can't find some in that catagory or if the car never had seat belts available find some that resembly would have been available in that era. I know that sentence really rambles but If it could have been used then used it.<p>[This message has been edited by rcirilli (edited 07-17-2000).]

[Dave@Moon]

I see the confusion is not mine alone. The TR6 was made from 1969-1976, all with (more or less) the same belts. Later versions are easier to find, they have the dreaded interlock switch incorporated and therefore were more likely to be yanked out and thrown in a corner. Otherwise there's no difference.<P>I'm certainly more into driving my car than I am having it judged. However, I seem to not have the option of passing judging on this point. I've seen several TR6's at AACA and other judged events with the old belts cleaned up and installed. I'd be very suprised if these sets were in working order, and even if they were I certainly wouldn't trust them for even occasional use.<P>The only reproduction belts that are available are only sold in Europe, where DOT certification and liability claims are not as troublesome for the manufacturer. Even at that, these would be a reproduction of a demonstrably inferior system. [As an aside, this is indicative of how serious the problem with these belts is. 95% of TR6 production came to the U.S., yet they won't sell us the reproduction belts!] <P>The aftermarket belts that you can get here attach to the stock mounts, but cinch rather than retract. They look nothing like the origional belts, but they seem to work. <P>There must be other situations that have arisen where stock equipment was found to be unsafe in later years (the installation of turn signals comes to mind). Is there some kind of rule of thumb or precedant for this kind of situation? <p>[This message has been edited by Dave@Moon (edited 07-18-2000).]

Dave: I own a 1972 TR-6 since new. It has the retractable belts, and, they work great, fortunately.<P>As to actually employeeing them, I have always been apprehensive. I use them every time I drive to a show, but, have little faith in them. Why? I do not know, but, just a gut feel.<P>Wish I could help, but, I know they are not listed in any catalogue I have.<P>Did you try British Racing Green, New Castle, Delaware? I stopped by one day, and, they have quite a few of TR-6's on their lot for parts cars.<P>Stay in touch. In my travels, I will be on the lookout. My passion is the TR-6, and, will be more than pleased to help out.<P>------------------<BR>

[ronbarn]

I'll see if I'm up to the challenge posted earlier. First, I have to make an assumption that Dave@Moon is correct regarding the inadequacy of the original seatbelts. If he is wrong than the whole thread is moot. So I'll assume he's right.<P>While there are certainly some outstanding exceptions, it is generally conceded that attempting to be highly competitive on the showfield with a driver is not reasonable. So you have to make up your mind - driver or shower. For show - use the originals. For drive - use the more safe replacements.<P>And if you insist on trying both with the same vehicle, get a set of each type of belts and install the original for show and the more safe option for drive. Some people do this with tires, i.e. radial for driving and proper tires for showing.

Although it might seem logical to attack AACA at this point for being unreasonable about it's judging standards ("I can't safely drive my competitive car to an AACA national meet!"), I would still like to register my vote for maintaining the high judging standards AACA has for national meets--the underlying idea being to "preserve" or at least "show it like it *really* was" w/regard to automotive history. It's obviously not something everyone can or would even want to do (a 100% authentic restoration), but thankfully there are some who do, and that's what makes AACA national meets experiences *positively unmatched.*<P>My two cents.<P>Steve Mierz<BR>Stony Creek, CT<p>[This message has been edited by Steve Mierz (edited 07-19-2000).]

Putting in non-original seatbelts can, at most, cost you 4 points? (right Ronb?) Not really enough point loose to affect a car's ability to judge well. <P>Small price (if any) to pay for safety.<P>Peter<P>------------------<BR>Peter Gariepy<BR>peterg@aaca.org<BR> <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org" TARGET=_blank>www.aaca.org</A> <p>[This message has been edited by peterg (edited 07-19-2000).]