Truck Frame Identification

[X-Frame]

Can anyone identify this truck frame that dates between 1915-1918? Or know of others like it that have the X bracing? All this says is a heavy duty frame (over 1 ton?).

Thanks!

[X-Frame]

This may be some sort of dump truck or similar frame. Note the measurements for a chain driven rear wheel system.

Any ideas? Any other place to post?

Thanks!

[Restorer32]

That drawing is from the set of books titled AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING by the American Technical Society and is just labeled as a typical heavy duty frame. My copy was printed in 1934.

[X-Frame]

That drawing is from the set of books titled AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING by the American Technical Society and is just labeled as a typical heavy duty frame. My copy was printed in 1934.

Yup, that is where it came from but the drawing is detailed to be from some service manual. Is is the truck manufacturer that used this design I am seeking to add to the X-Frame history book. The drawing I posted came from a 1918 copy available free on Google Books.

[nzcarnerd]

You may find that the frame was built by a frame maker who supplied chassis to several different makes.

[X-Frame]

You may find that the frame was built by a frame maker who supplied chassis to several different makes.

True. The significance though is the fact that this dates at least 1918 and possibly as early as 1915. The earliest X frame I have run across so far is 1923 (for automobiles) and this being nearly 10 years earlier, really wish to find out just what makes it sat under? AND... if there may be even earlier examples from automobiles, trucks, military vehicles, etc...

[Barry Wolk]

How about Packard? I saw a truck at a show that had a strange-looking PTO in that general area. I think it was supported by an X brace.

[Barry Wolk]

Is that what's under this?

[X-Frame]

I was also thinking of the semi tractor as you posted but not sure. I feel like that A.O. Smith designed / manufactured it but for which trucks. The frame in the iagram is made for chain drive while Packard was "worm" drive they called it then. I believe Peerless trucks had chain pretty late?

In the mean time I ran across one more truck made between 1918-1920 called the Traffic Motor Truck made in St. Louis. It actually had an X in the middle of the frame like on cars but the drive ran under it so it is a solid X. Only have a scanned diagram of it.

[Dandy Dave]

Here is the dope on a worm drive. These were very common in Fordson Model F tractors, and Model TT Ford trucks. The ring gear is commonly made of Bronze in the Ford products. Also other heavy trucks and equipment. A worm drive is also commonly used for the boom hoist on a crane, or cable power shovel. Dandy Dave!

Worm drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Layden B]

Page 76 volume 3 This just looks like a couple of straps, serves for bracing but certainly not a crossmember as we think of one as it has no depth.

[X-Frame]

Page 76 volume 3 This just looks like a couple of straps, serves for bracing but certainly not a crossmember as we think of one as it has no depth.

Great find Layden. Is this book yours? If so, can you send me a better scan (not blurred) of this frame? Though not a true X, we also need background and variations that lead up to more standard X bracing.

The design of frames changed a lot around 1915 while this one is around 1912 (book published 1912). Does it mention in the text the year of this truck frame?

BTW... the famous Bugatti Royale chassis used similar rod stabilizers stretched across the frame in a X pattern.

Keep looking... may come across some "firsts" in your searches! Thanks again!

Eric

[X-Frame]

Rather than this thread falling out of sight on the board, bringing it back up to the top. Thanks.

[Larry Schramm]

Not a Buick truck frame.

[X-Frame]

While digging further I am seeing some evidence of trucks as early as 1913 that have some form of X support rather straps or rods. But these heavy plates I haven't seen yet and it could date earlier than 1915.

[X-Frame]

I ran across this photo of a 1908 Darracq-Serpollet (France) that is similar to the mystery frame above. The one above though is American and shows up in a 1916-1918 book series. Has anyone else run across any other possibilities yet?

[X-Frame]

Page 76 volume 3 This just looks like a couple of straps, serves for bracing but certainly not a crossmember as we think of one as it has no depth.

Layden, I never heard anything back from you on the attached photo... sent an email. Thanks.

[X-Frame]

Bringing this back up since I ran across a old issue of "Automobile Topics" from February 1912 and it mentions a new truck being introduced as the NATCO by te National Motor Truck Company of Bay City, MI. It says the truck frame has a X-shaped cross member over the back axle which also serves to support the transverse extra load-bearing spring. I am wondering if the first example above is a Natco? Anyone familiar with the company and their trucks?

Thanks!

[Rojaspak]

It's possible that the X-frame was used for the Natco, which was a chain-drive truck built by National Cycle Manufacturing Co. of Bay City, Michigan. The company was one of the earliest and most important of the early "safety" bicycles (such as we have today) that replaced the old high-wheel bikes. The company made bikes from 1892 to 1916, and starting about 1909 also started to make automotive components, first for Packard and Studebaker. Their bicycle manufacturing operation was bought in 1916 by Dayton Huffman, which made bikes into the 1940s and still operates today. Their physical plant in Bay City was bought by Chevrolet at about the same time, and now operates as GM Powertrain.
Getting to the point, one of National Cycle's ventures, or misadventures, was initiation of the Natco brand of chain-driven truck in 1913 under the company name National Truck Company. However, the venture was not successful for whatever reason, and only 25 Natco trucks were build before the company pulled the plug.
Don't know whether this has anything to do with your question about the X-frame, but the timeline and chaindrive fit your parameters.

[Roger Walling]

Barry,now I understand why they call it a "Fifth Wheel"

I have been fixing trucks for 47 years and have never seen one of these.