Oossible good news for purests, bad news for hotrods.

[Roger Walling]

There is a new law in Ma. that will probally stop Hotroders from buying nice antique cars and hodroding them.

If interested, follow this thread on The Hamb. (of interest to anyone with a customized car or specially built car.)


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=683183

[joe_padavano]

While your bias is obvious (and in which case, why are you reading H.A.M.B.?), the thread sounds more like a state attempting to collect more revenue by further restricting the use of antique plates. Big surprise, in today's economic environment that's going on everywhere. As a former MA resident, we called it "Taxachusetts" for a reason. I also see plain stupidity on the part of government employees (imagine that!) since when I lived there, cars more than ten years old did not get titles. Apparently some DVM employees aren't old enough to remember that or the fact that VINs weren't always 17 characters long.

[bkazmer]

Having a '95 Chevy with a older body registered as a 95 Chevy doesn't really sound that unfair, even if motivated by revenue. Registering pre-VIN cars on engine number is a long established practice

[trimacar]

Well, interesting how different people can read different things.

The way I read both the thread and the law:

-Massachusetts doesn't want a "built" hot rod titled or licensed as an original antique automobile

-Massachusetts wants a "built" car to be safe, and thus must have some inspection of components to assure it's not a death trap for driver or others

-Massachusetts wants to assure that stolen parts aren't used on a "built" car

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me, compared to the standards that car manufacturers have to meet to put a "built" car on the road......

[mike brady]

Investing both time and $ building any car before investigating state, federal or import laws doesn't make good sense to me.

[avgwarhawk]

Investing both time and $ building any car before investigating state, federal or import laws doesn't make good sense to me.

Can't argue that logic.

[36chev]

The way I read both the thread and the law:

-Massachusetts doesn't want a "built" hot rod titled or licensed as an original antique automobile

I never have understood the logic of registering a hot rod as an antique. The only thing antique is usually the body (or at times just a few parts of the body). All modern running gear and interior, usually. But in this case, a "built" hot rod using all reproduction materials ( a fiberglass or new body, etc.?), would make even less sense as an antique.

And if the purpose of a hot rod or modifed is driveability (and an assumption that they will be driven more than antique licensing allows...), then that is another issue.

[poci1957]

Well, interesting how different people can read different things.

The way I read both the thread and the law:

-Massachusetts doesn't want a "built" hot rod titled or licensed as an original antique automobile

-Massachusetts wants a "built" car to be safe, and thus must have some inspection of components to assure it's not a death trap for driver or others

-Massachusetts wants to assure that stolen parts aren't used on a "built" car

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me, compared to the standards that car manufacturers have to meet to put a "built" car on the road......

Assuming for a moment that it is not just a money grab it sounds like someone saw a carelessly built rat rod and decided to crack down. I had been waiting for that to happen. Todd C

[Dave Fields]

In Texas, hot rods are not supposed to be registered as Antiques, but a lot of them are. There doesn't seem to be any inforcement, and given the unusual nature of historical vehicle registrations, I makes sence as to why. I am surprised I have not been stopped for not having an inspection sticker, not required of course, but would the average cop know?

[rocketraider]

I never have understood the logic of registering a hot rod as an antique.

Generally financial or trying to get the car out of safety and emission inspections.

[R W Burgess]

Before you guys continue bashing hot rods and their licensing problems, be aware that those cars and our antiques are generally in the same boat. We need them, they need us, as a unified front to protect our hobby. I'm not supporting the build quality of either, just keep the message above in mind!

Wayne

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Wayne, this is where it gets tricky. I guess it is a decision of the value of the numbers vs. other issues. Forget the philisophical differences, and I recognize many collectors have both vehicles in their garage - good for them. (Would love a traditional '32, a "short list car" for me! )

The issue I have with being in the same boat is not personal, but it relates to:

Above comments about these not being true antiques seems valid to me. Modern running gear or radically modified, essentially home built vehicles are not "historic vehicles" Agree with safety and tax concerns outlined above. It is just a case of appropriate regs for the situation, not an "anti hot rodder sentiment" in my view.

More critical to me though, is that the fact of the matter is some of these guys (not all, but some) misbehave on the road. Within the last 3 years, deaths involving fatalities in CT alone attributed to antique cars have turned out to be hot rods NOT antiques - but it is a reflection on the hobby. For the record, one I believe involved a health or mechanical issue and no other cars, two involved a high rate of speed - this is the concern. If the media and subsequently the public views this as typical "antique car behavior" that cannot be good for preventing further PITA legislation, etc.

BUT how do you educate on the difference in a changing culture as has been discussed elsewhere many times including recently. Maybe we do need the numbers after all, as you say.

This is a tough choice, I think...

[1937hd45]

I see nothing gained by the school girl mentality of making light of others misfortune. From 20 feet most "Joe Adverage "guys can't tell a restored 1932 Ford from a full fendered Hot Rod. Bob

[trimacar]

Steve, I agree with you, and as much of a purist as I am, also wish I had a traditional duece roadster, after seeing some period cars in California it's hard not to like them.

I don't see this as bashing hot rods, but rather, doing what is right and within the law. A hot rod should be licensed as a regular car, not an antique, unless the State involved has a special hot rod license plate (and it seems that I've seen those).

A perosn with a rod shouldn't try to take advantage of the antique license plate laws, and the end result of doing so may well affect the laws that apply to us "original" guys and gals....That's the concern.........

[Roger Walling]

In Ma., there is absolutely no reason to register a hot rod as an antique, just the opposite, there are legal limitations as when and where you may drive it as an antique.
If one were to register it with Classic car insurance, with regular plates, the costs would be the same, and the driving limitations are less.

[avgwarhawk]

Marylands requirements:

To be registered as a historic vehicle (class L), your vehicle must be 20 calendar years old or older and must not have been substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured.

A historic registered vehicle cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses. A motor home, tow truck, or trailer does not qualify for historic registration.

If your historic vehicle is 60 years old or older, you may obtain a permanent, non-transferable registration for a one-time fee.

You can apply to register your vehicle as a historic vehicle in person at any of the MVA’s full service branch offices. You also can mail the required documents to the MVA’s Mail in Registration Unit in the Glen Burnie office, or go to an MVA licensed tag and title service where they will assist you in applying. Licensed tag and title services will charge a fee for this service.

The registration application documents include:

Application form – When your vehicle has a Maryland title and you are registering and titling it at the same time, the title can be used as the application form for both transactions. If the vehicle’s title was issued by another state, use the Application for Certificate of Title to apply. If you have already titled the vehicle in Maryland and now want to register it, you will need to complete the Application for New Plates/Stickers & Transfer of Plates or Non-Title Trailers.
Application for Historic or Street Rod Registration
Under certain circumstances, additional information and/or forms may be required:

Application for the Use of Vintage Registration Plates – If you possess vintage (old) license plates that are dated the same year as your vehicle’s model year, you may apply to display these vintage license plates on the vehicle, in place of the historic tags that are usually displayed. However, the historic tags will still be issued and must be carried in the vehicle at all times. There is a one-time fee for the use of vintage tags.
Specialty license plate application form – Historic vehicles are also eligible to display personalized message (vanity) plates. If you choose to request these plates, see Registration – Specialty License Plates for details. Historic vehicles 60 years or older, with permanent registration, do not qualify for special registration plates.
Note: A Maryland Safety Inspection Certificate is not required to register this vehicle.

How do I register a vehicle as a street rod?

To be registered as a street rod (class N), your vehicle must:

be 25 model years old or older; and
have been substantially altered from the manufacturer’s original design.
A vehicle registered as a street rod cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses.

You can apply to register your vehicle as a street rod in person at any of the MVA’s full service branch offices. You also can mail the required documents to the MVA’s Mail in Registration Unit in the Glen Burnie office, or go to an MVA licensed tag and title service where they will assist you in applying. Licensed tag and title services will charge a fee for this service.

The registration application documents include:

Application form – When your vehicle has a Maryland title and you are registering and titling it at the same time, the title can be used as the application form for both transactions. If the vehicle’s title was issued by another state, use the Application for Certificate of Title to apply. If you have already titled the vehicle in Maryland and now want to register it, you will need to complete the Application for New Plates/Stickers & Transfer of Plates or Non-Title Trailers.
Application for Historic or Street Rod Registration.
Under certain circumstances, additional information and/or forms may be required:

Application for the Use of Vintage Registration Plates – If you possess vintage (old) license plates that are dated the same year as your vehicle’s model year, you may apply to display these vintage license plates on the vehicle, in place of the street rod tags that are usually displayed. However, the street rod tags will still be issued and must be carried in the vehicle at all times. There is a one-time fee for the use of vintage tags.
Specialty license plate application form – Street rods are also eligible to display personalized message (vanity) plates. If you choose to request these plates, see Registration – Specialty License Plates for details.
Note: A Maryland Safety Inspection Certificate is not required to register this vehicle.

[trimacar]

So, taking Maryland as an example, if you register as either an antique or a street rod, it can't be used (legally) for regular transportation.

Thus, if someone builds a daily driver "rod" out of a vehicle 25 years or more old, the only way to drive it regularly would be to register it as a regular vehicle.

The irony in this, and any state's legislatation, is that there's no clause for a "period correct" hot rod. Let's say you buy a little duece coupe, and it was built in 1948. Then, it still goes under the terms of a substantially altered car. There almost needs to be a "historic hot rod" category.....

[avgwarhawk]

So, taking Maryland as an example, if you register as either an antique or a street rod, it can't be used (legally) for regular transportation.

Thus, if someone builds a daily driver "rod" out of a vehicle 25 years or more old, the only way to drive it regularly would be to register it as a regular vehicle.

The irony in this, and any state's legislatation, is that there's no clause for a "period correct" hot rod. Let's say you buy a little duece coupe, and it was built in 1948. Then, it still goes under the terms of a substantially altered car. There almost needs to be a "historic hot rod" category.....

IMO there needs to be only two. The vehicles need to be 25 years old. If the car is substantially altered it is a hot rod no matter the year manufactured. If the car is untouched and as original as it can be it is historic no matter what year manufactured. If other catefories are presented soon it will a laundry list of items for cars to fall under and a muddled mess. We have enough muddled mess already concerning the DMV.

[trimacar]

Yes, I think I agree, it's already a mess, adding more categories would just confuse it more.

Soon after moving from Louisiana to Virginia, I bought some NOS 1937 Virginia license plates to go on my Cord. Went to DMV, had to get my license renewed. They pulled up my license, and "female" was marked on the sex line. Somehow we figured out that was a mistake. It took the DMV attendant 90 minutes to change my sex, during which time she had to call the main Richmond office three times.

Finally, sex was changed (whew!), and I handed her the plates, TH-xxxx. Um, Mr. Coco, she said, we can't put Truck for Hire plates on a passenger car. What! I exclaimed...You make me go through a 90 minute operation to have my sex changed, and now you won't let me use these plates!?!?!

She smiled and said what the heck, and registered them. That's why my 1937 Cord phaeton is a truck for hire.....with a passenger car (antique YOM) registration...

[avgwarhawk]

Clearly the DMV needs some cleaning up in some areas. By and large my visit to register and tag my Buick was under 1 hours. I was pleased. Our laws in MD concerning historic vehicles is being examined because a lot are abusing the tag system for historic vehicles. In short, pulling the old Ford Taurus from the weeds. Claiming it's historic. Getting tags cheaply. Insurance coverage even more cheaply than the tags. NO INSPECTION NEEDED. Cars are now daily drivers. Clearly abusive. Some of the "historic" are absolute beaters and dangerous. But, the state says thats ok. However, daily driver is not ok. I see the same "historic" beaters going on the same road same time everyday. Rattling and smoking. MD should really require inspections and full charge on tags. This will keep the "historic" beater off the road.

[junkyardjeff]

I have no problem seeing a hotrod registered as a antique as long as it is not a reproduction built with all new parts,those should be registered as a regular vehicle but as the year it resembles.

[CarFreak]

Before you guys continue bashing hot rods and their licensing problems, be aware that those cars and our antiques are generally in the same boat. We need them, they need us, as a unified front to protect our hobby. I'm not supporting the build quality of either, just keep the message above in mind!

Wayne

Furthermore, sometimes rodders can be helpful in the type of items they are reproducing (which are often not available elsewhere)

Sheet Metal Replacement Parts: Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, LaSalle,32 Ford. Kemps