[Dave@Moon]

Originally Posted by DeSoto Frank

These "carucks" or "trars" baffle me... that there's a market for them further baffles me.

It's pretty basic. Not everybody who needs a hauler needs it for 3/4 of a ton of stuff.

I had a BRAT for 3 years. It was the perfect vehicle for a rural PA environmental inspector. I could carry all my equipment and samples securely (it had a cap), drive an economical car that got up to 30 mpg that would fit anywhere and still had 4WD, and sit in a comfortable cab in a complete separate air mass from the (frequently highly contaminated) soil/water samples I collected and the equipment and preservatives that I used to collect them. I could just as well have needed it to haul hay bales to a corral, or to make parts runs for a garage.

I replaced the BRAT first with a Mitsubishi truck and then (after quitting the inspector job) a Ranger. It was these vehicles (S10, Tacoma, B2000, etc.) that killed the car bodied trucks. They did it by having similar economy of operation and utility, but @ cheaper purchase price. For a homeowner who only needs to haul the occasional piece of furniture or washing machine, these things do just fine without massive gasoline bills. If the Datsun/Toyota/Chevy Luv/Ford Courier class of truck hadn't come along there probably would still be car-based pickups roaming the U.S.

I (for one) miss them.

[Skyking]

I think the El Camino was the perfect vehicle. I used to have a 1987, the last year they were made. It was a car & truck altogether with style. I don't care what the author says..............

[DeSoto Frank]

Dave,

I agree with your statement "not everyone needs a hauler for 3/4 ton of stuff"...

I also agree with the thrifty aspects of the original BRAT, Ford Courier, Chevy LUV and related pick-ups.

The vehicles I take bafflement with are monstrosities like the Chevy Avalanche (and its GMC & Caddy twins), and such... can't imagine those being economy champs like the BRAT...

The BRAT was actually a pretty cool vehicle when it came out - a mini-truck/car that offered 4WD... nobody else had anything like it. Biggest problems I remember about them plagued all Subarus of that era: poor corrosion resistance, and an engine noise that resembled a main-bearing knock ( apparently not a life-threatening issue, but a pesky noise)

Probably the least ridiculous iteration of the car/truck would be Subaru's offering, based on the Forester (?) - esentially a Standard Subaru wagon with an abbreviated roofline.

Again, my opinions...

There have been periods of my life when I've been without a "Real" pick-up truck, and I've regretted it each time. I have also found that a pick-up with a full eight-ft box worlks best for me... no "short-boxes", thank you.

[Dave@Moon]

Originally Posted by DeSoto Frank

The vehicles I take bafflement with are monstrosities like the Chevy Avalanche (and its GMC & Caddy twins), and such... can't imagine those being economy champs like the BRAT...

"Monstrosities" is the most appropriate word you could have chosen for Avalanche, and to a slightly lesser extent the Honda Ridgeline copy of the Avalanche. They exist for one reason, to give "truck people" an excuse to drive a 4 door sedan without suffering the indignity and embarrassment of actually touching or getting in an actual "car" (italics used to imply a disdainful tone).

There is the half-hearted excuse that the Avalanche can be converted into an 8' bed by folding the "mid-gate". They've been on the road for 6+ years now, and I've yet to see even one so converted. (And there are 2 of them on my street.) There's no end of baby seats belted into the back seat of the one's I see on the road, however.

I did see someone towing a boat with an Avalanche, once.

Basically there are some people who just aren't happy unless they're getting less than 14 mpg, and who take a perverse pleasure in excess. That's who these vehicles were for. Thank goodness that they'll be history in 3-5 years max as CAFE standards increase.

[MCHinson]

I feel compelled to defend the Avalanche. The later models don't look too bad to me. The Honda Ridgeline does looks strange to me.

I have a friend who has an Avalanche. He loves it. It is designed for the market segment who wants a luxurious (think Cadillac of the 70's or 80's plush interior) vehicle, excellent driving, filled with options, latest electronics, can carry the occasional small load in the bed outside of the passenger compartment, and needs to tow a trailer (usually a boat) on the weekends. The cargo compartment on his Avalanche has a hard lockable cover. It is a very nice vehicle.

I have a Chevrolet Tahoe, because I need to carry a family of 4 and have to be able to carry all of our stuff and pull a car hauler long distances to shows. It is very similar to the Avalanche, except I have to put a tarp in the back if I want to carry something dirty, while my friend can just throw that kind of stuff in the back because it is not inside the passenger compartment and not carpeted.

If you want a nice vehicle to carry 4 people and their stuff and need to tow a heavy trailer, either of those vehicles can do the job with style.

Last year, we had to travel out of state for one of our officer's funerals, The Avalanche also proved quite capable of carrying a small Bagpipe Band contingent. We took two pipers, a bass drummer, a snare drummer, along with all of the pipes and drums and uniforms and luggage and computers and paraphernalia for a week from NC to Pennsylvania and a sidetrip to New York City and traveled comfortably. There are a very limited number of vehicles on the market that can carry 4 cops, two sets of bagpipes, a bass drum (those are not small), a snare drum (also bulky), uniforms, luggage, and all of the necessary stuff for a long trip. There are all types of vehicles because there are all types of needs. I can't imagine any vehicle that I would have preferred over that Avalanche for that trip, unless it was perhaps a Chevy Suburban or Tahoe.

[Dave@Moon]

Originally Posted by MCHinson

I can't imagine any vehicle that I would have preferred over that Avalanche for that trip, unless it was perhaps a Chevy Suburban or Tahoe.

The Chevy Avalanche is rated for 14/20 mpg by the EPA in it's most fuel efficient form. The Dodge Sprinter is way more than twice as big as the Avalanche, and is EPA rated 26/30 mpg. The Sprinter's maximum payload is more than twice as much as the Avalanche with almost exactly the same tow rating.

They're very close in price as well, with the Avalanche available for somewhat less than the Sprinter but frequently optioned for more than the Sprinter.

The four of you could have slept on separate benches all the way with more room for your stuff, and saved over 50% on fuel.

Of course the Sprinter doesn't win any beauty awards either!

[MCHinson]

And I don't think he and his wife would enjoy the Sprinter as their weekend boat towing vehicle. Plus, I don't think it reasonable to ask him to trade in the Avalanche that he owns and loves for a slightly newer uglier van that has no cargo area for those dirty things that he can throw in the back of the Avalanche.

Here in my town, between 5 to 10 miles from the ocean and even closer to the River, most of the Avalanches and Tahoes actually DO tow boats on the weekends.

[Lawteachr]

1961 Plymouth (Full Size)

[DeSoto Frank]

Originally Posted by Lawteachr

1961 Plymouth (Full Size)

Ooooh... them's fightin' words !

My dear departed '61 Plymouth Belvedere 4-door was one of my favorite cars ever... can't say it was a "pretty"car, but it sure was neat ( funky )...

[Dave@Moon]

Originally Posted by DeSoto Frank

Ooooh... them's fightin' words !

My dear departed '61 Plymouth Belvedere 4-door was one of my favorite cars ever... can't say it was a "pretty"car, but it sure was neat ( funky )...

My college dorm room had a wall made of cork board for posters, notices, etc. I used mine to make a collage of old car photos from a bunch of Old Cars magazines, one of which was a red '61 Fury convertible.

My roommate, who was a big Mopar geek and who owned a Challenger R/T, asked me (seriously): "What did it hit?"

You can't make that kind of stuff up!