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Thread: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

  1. #1

    Question 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Hi!
    I am an Old-timer ‘addict’ and I am interested in the 1937 Adler ‘racing Limousine.


    I am fascinated by this car.
    Would love to be able to visit to this dream car!


    Thanking you in advance for your effort,

    Looking forward to hear from you,



    Kind regards
    oldtimerfan
    Last edited by oldtimerfan; October 1st, 2011 at 01:59.

  2. #2

    Smile Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    That car sold at Hershey.Went to europe. They were nothing compared to a BMW 328

    The type 10 Autobahn coupe is very very pretty and ran along very well
    Last edited by L.C.22; November 24th, 2009 at 13:42.
    LC Is medicated please don't give him anything sharp!

  3. #3

    Question Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Hi again,
    There were two Adler Rennlimousinen !!
    I mean exactly the Adler in my Attachment !


    regards
    oldtimerfan


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  4. #4
    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    I remember seeing that car just after it was taken out of a barn in Southfield Michigan, roughly 10-12 years ago. The Southfield owner claimed that GM designers came to see the car, and came up with the design for the 1963 Corvette coupe. I'm not sure how much of that story is true. The car does have a pretty good racing history, though. I believe one of its drivers was a woman (first woman at Le Mans, or something like that).
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

  5. #5

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Everything that I've found so far


    In 1996 it was an award winner at the Pebble Beach Concours D'Elegance. Temporarily owned by the Blackhawk Collection and shown at the 2001 Meadow Brook Hall Concours d'Elegance http://www.mbhconcours.org/ , it has now found a home in Jay Leno's Big Dog Garage. http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/your_g...ars/7363.shtml
    Posted by jesse at 12:14 PM
    Labels: Adler, aerodynamics, Lemans Classic, Leno, Pebble Beach, streamliner

    2 comments:
    Feng said...
    I thought that Hupmobile was pretty ... and then I saw this. Wow ... just Wow.
    11:48 AM

    jesse said...
    I bet that was what Jay Leno said!
    7:59 PM


    Read more: Just a Car Guy: A look at the beauty and art of LeMans competitors, 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition Coupe

  6. #6
    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    The link doesn't work, but I'm not aware that Jay Leno owns that car. Visitors to his website are invited to post pictures of their car, and what you found may be something an Internet visitor posted on his site.
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

  7. #7
    Super Moderator West Peterson's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    My friend, Jim, who discovered the car in Southfield, Michigan wrote this on the H.A.M.B.

    "I've got one for all of you guys that might qualify as the rarest. It's a 1937 Adler Streamliner that raced at Lemans in 1937 and 1938. I've never told this story in public before, but it was also used to "inspire" the 1963 split window Corvette. When I first saw it in a shed in Southfield Michigan I thought it WAS a 63 Vette. But the owner, a crazy man named Rubin, told me it was Hitler's car, it was a Lemans race car, and GM stole the design for the 63 vette. I of course didn't believe any of this. He told me a story about going to the 60 or 61 Michigan state fair in this car and a exec for GM was there and gave him his card and asked him to bring it to the GM Vandyke design center. He thought they were going to buy it so he had someone follow him over there. When he got there they had him pull it on the cobblestoned turntable. There were three camera's on tri-pods around it and they spun the car around a few times and told him thank you for coming by. He was PISSED that they led him on and did not buy it. It sounded pluasible since the design was SOOO close. A few years later I had met David Holls at a car show and asked him about the 63 Vette story. He gave me his card and told me to call him later in the week. I did and he invited me to his home outside of Detroit. When I went there he had an extensive library of everything automotive. He also had a binder on the Adler (and several on the Vettes) which included some of the pictures from the cobblstone turntable that Rubin had told me about! I asked about Rubins claim that the 63 vette was taken from this car and he said that my answer was in the clay model prototype pics. He said to check the dates on all of the "older" style clay model pics, then look at the clay model pics of the clay Vettes the next few weeks AFTER the day the Adler was on the turntable. After comparing it became obvious that the designs changed radically right after Rubin's visit with the Adler. So I asked David directly WAS the split window Vette design taken from this car. He looked at me with a smile and shook his head yes, but at the same time said "absolutely not"!! LOL He then told me that if I thought that he was going to ruin GM's credit for coming up with the 63 split window I was mistaken. All of this with a warm smile of course. David Died a few years later, but that was one of my best "car" days I had ever spent.

    The car did also turn out to be a Lemans Race car just as Rubin had said it was. It raced in 1937 and 1938 and won it's class and came in 7th overall in 1938. I could not find any documentation of Rubin's claim that Adler had gifted it to Hitler, but that would not surprise me since ADler was the only Jewish owned car manufacturer in pre-war Germany and they might have wanted to make a good impression. Adler streamliners were some of the first cars to go down the autobahn in a big cerimony with Hitler present, so who knows. Anyway, here is a pic of the unrestored car when I owned it and a pic of the post restored car in the Blackhawk collection. Other notable "firsts" with this car in 1937.. First closed car to race at Lemans. First streamliner to race at Lemans, first wind tunnel designed car to race at Lemans (designhed by the same man who designed the Chrysler Airflow) and the first woman to drive at Lemans.

    I've had lots of other "rare" cars like T/A Challengers and AAR Cudas, 32 Ford 5W, Boss Mustangs, etc. But this was by far the rarest of rare and the most historically significant car I will probably ever find. The first pic is the car at the 38 Lemans. The second pic is what it looked like when I owned it. The third pic is at Pebble Beach where it came in 3rd. The last pic is it in the Blackhawk Collection, who bought it from me and had it restored at the prison resto shop in Arizona.

    They tell me that the car is now in a private collection in Europe. I still have a letter from Baron Fristz Hueske Von Hanstein who raced it with Madamme Annie Iteire in 1937. He tells me about them being blackflagged for improper fueling and him then having to "console" Annie in her tent for hours and hours."
    West Peterson, Editor
    Antique Automobile (AACA)
    No man treats a motorcar as foolishly as he treats another human being. When the car will not go, he does not attribute its annoying behavior to sin, he does not say, "You are a wicked motorcar and I shall not give you any more petrol until you go." He attempts to find out what is wrong and set it right. – Bertrand Russel

    "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been!" – Uncle Arni

  8. #8

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    That's a great story West. Thanks for the info!!

  9. #9

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Search the HAMB for German racing cars

    I think the car is mentioned in Thread 'What's the rarest car you've owned'

    There are several Autobahn Adlers out there. They all vary some in detail
    2 is too small a number. That would mean I have sat in ALL of them ..... it's just not the case
    LC Is medicated please don't give him anything sharp!

  10. #10
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    My sources would indicate that Hitler would not have "owned" the car, as automobiles, and I asume other materials, were not owned by him, but would have been "owned" by the state. It is well known that he was an admirer of fast cars, and quite involved with the German automobile industry
    Albert Speer, in his book "Inside the Third Reich," reported that Hitler enjoyed traveling at high speeds and was proud that the American makes could not keep up with the big supercharged cars he rode in. He did not name the brands, but one wonders if there would be a reason to win the race, or stay in close proximity to his car. Speer was also known for exagerating facts in favor of German industrial positions.
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  11. #11

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    This is an old thread, so I'm not sure if anyone is still paying attention, but I am Rubin's grandson. I "drove" this car when I was 8 or 9 years old...steering as my dad, grandfather and uncle pushed the car across the yard in Farmington, MI (where Rubin lived before moving to Southfield).

    Rubin made all of the above claims though he never said "LeMans", he said "the most famous race in the world" but could never remember which race.

    He was known as rather eccentric and had many tall tales on a wide variety of topics (he claimed he once drove a souped up Model T at over 100 mph), but I eventually did do some research on the Adler and much of what he claimed turned out to be true. It did run at LeMans as reported above, but it actually ran better at Nurburgring. There it was considered the fastest car on the track, but the plexiglass windows (!) kept fogging up and they had to pit several times to try and fix that. It still placed well. My understanding is at that time - in the late 30's - Nurburgring was actually a bigger deal than LeMans.

    The car had a wooden floor, plexiglass windows, a tubular steel frame and an aluminum plate body. According to one source I found, the V-6 engine was hand built by Ferdinand Porsche, who gave it three carberators - one for each pair of cylinders. I wish to heck I still had that documentation, but its been lost in my 5 moves since I did this research (I lived in Washington DC at the time and did this research at the Library of Congress).

    There were two cars, and I am unclear as to which ran in which race but they looked slightly different. The one above is NOT my grandfather's car. I know this because of the large Jaguar-style oval grill that runs vertically across the front. Rubin's car had a smaller oval grill that ran horizontally across the front.

    We were always suspect of the Hitler connection, but we do know he bought it from a US Serviceman after WW II. Rubin's story was that this soldier was from the first US unit to get to Hitler's mountain compound (if you ever saw the last episode of "Band of Brothers", that's the place) and, finding it there, arranged to ship it back to the states. It is plausible.

    As far as the connection to the '63 Corvette goes, other members of the family, including my father, remember him taking it to GM in 1960 or 1961. They said they had seen a GM brochure that included pictures of the Adler, but I never saw it. Rubin was a hoarder, and it no doubt decomposed with the other junk in his house. But I absolutely believe that this car was the inspiration for that split-window design.

    I did my research in the late 80's with the aim of restoring the car, which was falling apart in Rubin's backyard. I had several conversations with a top-notch auto restoration outfit in White Post, VA as well as others involved in antique auto collections. I suspect one of these folks tipped off Jim, quoted above, that I was putting together this plan because my grandfather sold the car -- which had been rotting in the weeds for over 25 years -- for $50k the week before I asked him if I could have it. C'est la vie.

    Michael Halperin
    Southborough, MA
    mhalperin@FreeBridgeServices.com

  12. #12
    Senior Member Barry Wolk's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Where did your grandfather live? I graduated from Southfield HS in 1970.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bleach's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Yes, the story about the prototype Vette split window should be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen various photos of clay mock ups of the Vette that were done in about '59 or '60 called the XP-720.
    ~DJ~

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  14. #14

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    "Albert Speer, in his book "Inside the Third Reich," reported that Hitler enjoyed traveling at high speeds and was proud that the American makes could not keep up with the big supercharged cars he rode in."

    Hitler was kidding himself as usual. His supercharged Grosser Mercedes had a top speed a hair over 100 MPH with the supercharger engaged. But the factory warned not to drive the car with the supercharger engaged for more than 1 or 2 minutes.

    By contrast, a Pierce Arrow V12 driven by Ab Jenkins averaged 112.91 MPH for 24 hours at Bonneville in 1933. The Pierce was not as fast as a Duesenberg, or a 1938 -41 V16 Cadillac. Any of these could have beaten the Mercedes in speed and outlasted it too.

  15. #15
    Senior Member alsancle's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    This is a great thread and I remember the car in question at the 2001 Hershey Auction that Don Williams and Richie Clyne put on.

    Rusty, you put me in the uncomfortable position of being on the same side of the argument as Hitler. He's probably about 99% right. Other than the Duesenberg and maybe the Marmon V16, any of the American cars would have required a special rear end ratio to get over 100. I'm a Pierce fan but was that a bone stock car and what was the rear end ratio? The problem with the Grosser was the amount of weight it was pushing. It would be interesting to see how it would do with a light weight conv coupe body like what was on the Pierce. Also, there is no comparison between the fully independent suspension and transmission of the 540k/770k and the Pierce/Duesenberg 3 speed. The 4 & 5 speed transmission in the Mercedes gave a high top end with a stock rear end ratio.
    Last edited by alsancle; September 23rd, 2011 at 07:58.

  16. #16

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Barry - My grandfather moved to Southfield sometime in the 1972-74 range. Not sure of the exact address, but it was about a mile from that weird, round Holiday Inn tower.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Barry Wolk's Avatar
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    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    That hotel closed a year ago because Edison cut off its power for non-payment. It was no longer a Holiday Inn at that point.

    Your Grandfather moved in about the time I moved out. I was married in '72 at the Raliegh House, just down the street from the HI. Remember it?

  18. #18

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    The Adler streamiline racers do, indeed have a convoluted history. And I share in the blame. I really need to update my website which still contains earlier misinformation and some serious historical Adler errors. Last year I finally sorted through documents & photos, corresponded with people currently involved with them, and I think we mostly sorted it all out. There were three of them and I have three chassis serial numbers, engine numbers, and some small characteristics that are helpful in distinguishing one from another, in detail photos. My Dad had his Adler,back in 1951-54. I still have some of the original photos and negatives of before and after his work on the one he had. I have too much history to include in a post, several pages, as to who, when, where, which car, numbers, history etc.

    Here are just a few that show (I believe)TWO of the cars, and a before & after, outside my Dad's well-known Raceway Garage shop, in The Bronx, NY. Also shows the (then) "California" car.

    He had a lot of famous and wealthy custom car, exotic car, and race car customers back then, Hoffmann Motors and Chinetti and other exotic dealers and wealthy sporstmen, sent him a good deal of fascinating work on Classics, racers, customs and sports racing cars,many entered in big name auto shows and meets. At one time-he ran the shop on a 24 hour set of shifts.
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    Last edited by memaerobilia; September 24th, 2011 at 14:37.
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  19. #19
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    Smile Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Joe

    I think there are more than three. I have stood in front of three different examples! Honestly I can't think that I have stood in front of ALL of them. I did sit in Blackhawk's car at Hershey

    I don't know what's happened to Andy Adler's car but would bet it's one off most people's radar.

    I do think that I've seen a photo of severral together

    Good luck in the hunt

  20. #20

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Hi RU22;
    I would not argue the possiblility of more than three.
    While I have no evidence or proof of such, I keep an open mind and always welcome more information learned from these forum discussions and Internet news etc.
    One possible set of information, suggested by my photos and correspondence with other current and past owners, "suggests" that the silver one with large opening was car # 1. Also- that it now has a 1938 engine that "likely" replaced the 1937 engine for the 1938 races. I believe my father's car was car # 3, (and NOT JUST because of the blue color-as German historians report ONLY the # 3 car was painted blue). And I make a complete assumption that Rubin's car was car #2. This is all based on a succession of chassis and engine numbers, which are currently verifiable and still exist. My father sold his car to Andy Adler, who kept it for some 50 years! It is now, also, in Europe. Is this one of the three you stood in front of? Possibly years ago? As Michael states, Rubin's car was NOT the the one with large grille- but with the smaller oval one, like my fathers. And we know they were two different cars, as Andy Adlers was in one place, all the years Rubin's car was in another part of the country. The yellow and black car, in California, with Circa 1951- license plates, is a bit confusing. It MAY have been my fathers car-but I think, unlikely. My father's car clearly shows what appears to be old (in 1951..) "original" dark blue paint, as it sat on the street before he started work on it-not yellow with black top. Can Michael weigh in here? Was Rubin's car ever yellow and black?
    Last edited by memaerobilia; September 25th, 2011 at 11:18.
    Joe G.
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  21. #21

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Rubin's car was definitely not yellow and black, I believe it originally was blue. I never lived in Michigan so I only saw the car when I visited my grandfather which was not very often, odd guy that he was. My best memories are from the 70s, and it was by then more silver, but with a blue tint. By then, it had spent two decades sitting in the weeds out in the elements so hard to tell what it had looked like decades earlier. BTW, he said he bought it from someone in NYC in the early 1950's. Are you sure Rubin did not buy your father's car? All the documentation I found at the Library of Congress indicated there were only two.

    michael

  22. #22
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    Smile Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Please be careful about production numbers

    Here are TWO different cars I found on the first page of a Google search

    Neither of these were Andy Adler's car. AND Adlers car was a old blue without silver shinning thru

    Somewhere in all our junk I have photos. Might be years before I can find them
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  23. #23

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    Thanks for responding, Michael.
    Amidst all the confusing rumors, facts, stories etc., one thing is pretty clear. Unlikely to be ANY mistake about Dad (clearly and often)remembering to sell the Adler car to customer named ADLER. He also had an encyclopedic memory, rembering the evolution/history of many racing cars, as to who owned them originally and later, changes of engines and colors, and numbers, and owners of the cars etc. And, as noted here, Andy Adler kept the car in his large collection for some 50 years, so NOT a lot of lost ownership history for that car. But the time and NYC is, again, a confusing bit of info..*But NYC was FULL of such cars and offerings in that time period, with numerous old Duesenbergs, Millers, Indy cars, and rare pre-war exotics being offered.
    It would be GREAT to see those reference and research files that you put together. Wish they were available. Something to consider are existing chassis numbers that end in 671 and 673. Could Rubin's car have been the silver 672?
    It is not impossible that the yellow and black car, and my father's blue car, are/were the same car. and that photos of the yellow and black car were sent to my father, prior to his purchase of the car. But when and why the different paint?
    ***While I was typing ,RU22 sent those great photos. Is second car, Rubin's?Was Rubin's car ever in that condition? And I just did some other checking. Seems we are "probably" up to at least four, now. I have a record that there was another "current" photo of a still-Yellow and black car in a 1973 photo.
    Last edited by memaerobilia; September 25th, 2011 at 13:04.
    Joe G.
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  24. #24

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    I reached out to my Aunts, who grew up with the Adler. They confirmed my memory, remembering it as originally sky blue , but that by the mid-70's all the paint had chipped off, leaving only the silver of the aluminum plate body. They also said Rubin believed there were 3 of them. He did not know if his had raced at LeMans, but believed his was the one owned by Hitler (if you believe that part of the story).

  25. #25

    Re: 1937 Adler Rennlimousine Competition

    OK... I think I can sort out some of the confusion about these Adlers having owned the 37/38 Lemans car that oldtimerfan is looking for.

    I know of three that still exist. There were more of them built as detailed in factory photos i have. Each one is slightly different.

    The yellow car in question resided in the "Movie Museum of the Stars" in california for over 25 years. I have a magazine from the 70's showing this car in their possession. This car is also one with the smaller mouth type grille. The car was purchased by Blackhawk and painted silver and mistakenly advertised in Hemmings around 1989 as a Lemans race car. When I saw it I went back to Michigan to check on Rubin's car.

    The blue car with the far protruding headlights and also with the mouth type smaller horizontal grille is the car from Ohio owned by Mr. Adler. That car was auctioned off in barn find condition and has been restored. There are many pictures of this car on the web in great condition from several years ago, and in the barnfind condition too.

    The third car was Rubin's car that I bought, researched and owned for two years before selling to Blackhawk who then restored the car and auctioned it to Europe. I had first hand confirmation from Baron Fristz Heuske Von Hanstien that this car was the one he raced in Lemans in 1937. This car was in fact light blue painted at Earl Schieb in Detroit in the 60's. When I bought it most of the blue paint had fallen off. It still had its orignal red leather interior.

    Oldtimerfan's father used to own the car and supposedly bought the car in 1939 when it was retired from racing. He is now claiming that towards the end of the war his father was hospitalized for a long time and the car vanished. I believe he is now trying to find the car to try and claim it.

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