Lack of interchangeable parts

[Dwight Romberger]

Hi All,

I just spent an hour and a half going through a DVD version of a well known interchange book from 1927-1933, and I found at least a thousand parts that are interchangeable with my 1930 model 40 series! Unforunately, they are all the parts from a 1930 model 40 series.

Seriously, I am constantly amazed at the lack of interchangeability between years and models of a specific make. There must have been a tremendously large amount of design work going on each year when nothing this year can be the same as last year. And all without CAD systems or CNC machines!

Dwight

[50jetback]

In 1930 Buick was only in its 26th year of building cars ( less for a lot of other manufacturers ) and I guess new ideas were constantly being tried. Dramatic changes in Buick in 1930 - new chassis, new suspension, new steering, a motor and gearbox only 1 year old ( 1929 intro ) and then after all these new innovations the introduction of the straight eight in 1931.


You are right, very little is interchangeable between Buick models/years yet alone with other makes.


So hows that car going Dwight, maybe time for some more photos!!

[Dwight Romberger]

So hows that car going Dwight, maybe time for some more photos!!

Sounds like a challenge. I guess it is time to update. The chrome pieces are due back from Tennesee in a couple of weeks!
I'll try to find my camera.

Dwight

[michaelod]

Hey Dwight,

You are absolutely right about the lack of interchangeability between years and even models of the same year. As I am sure you have discovered there is very little that will interchange between your 1930 40 series and my 1930 60 series car. Frequently the parts will look identical in design with the only difference being a change in dimension. I have been bitten several times when acquiring a part that appeared at a distance to be correct only to discover later that it was from a 40 series car and did not fit. Forget about the 1930 Buick Marquette altogether. Often referred to as the 30 series in manuals, there is absolutely nothing on the car that will interchange with anything else. It is as if it were designed by a completely different manufacturer.

Take Care,

[bobj49f2]

I have a feeling all of this changed after the war because of the stringent requirements for interchangeable parts for vehicles on the battle field. I think the engineers after the war realize they could save a lot of money by using parts across models and years. I have a friend who designed tooling for the major car companies in the '60s and '70s. One day he was looking at my '49 Ford truck's hood and started to tell me how much tooling it took to just make the hood. He figured the tooling just for the hood was probably close to a half a million dollars in 1949. Almost every part of my truck will fit any other '48 and '50 truck. There are some parts specific to model but all of the sheet metal will fit with the exception of some fenders.

[nzcarnerd]

There was a small amount of interchangeability in the 1920s - for example the first Pontiacs used some Chevrolet parts. It was the great depression that forced economies - from about 1933 GM used the same bodies on various models althought here were minor differences. The 1934 Series 40 Buick is a mixture of parts from the GM parts bin although its engine was unique. The tooling was obviously the biggest expense. Drilling holes for mounting lights in different palces is the easy bit. For GM sharing of engines did not arrive until much later.

[Pete O]

Isn't the reason we love these old cars precisely because they have individuality? As the bean counters took over from the engineers in running the car business, we got more and more interchangeability, but also more and more badge engineering.

[par1]

As an owner of a 1930 40 series and 2 1931 60 series cars, there are several parts that are interchangeable. The 1930 47 sedan and the 1931 67 sedan parts that are interchangeable are as follows: the front and rear fenders, the front and rear doors, the gas tank cover, the gas tank, running boards, the wheels, the hubs, the front end excluding the front wheel backing plate, wiper motor, seats, trunk rack, back wheel rack in lieu of the trunk rack, motor hood is the same except the 1930 has a piano hinge as opposed to the 1931 has a slip hinge, the cowl and cowl lights, the headlight lenses, reflector and lock ring and the badge bar. We have restored our cars with parts that we have interchanged between the two different years.

As for the engine and mechanical parts, I would check with one of the people that are restoring other 1930 Buicks.

[Dwight Romberger]

par1,

That is very interesting information. I had been told the 1930 model 47 and the 1931 model 67 were extremely similar, but I did not know parts were interchangeable. Ross Bierman took upholstery measurements for me of his 1931 model 67 and they were the exact same as the upholstery measurements of my 1930 model 47. Lebonney Baron has a kit for the 1931-67 so I am going to use that.

I do have a question. The kick panels that cover the firewall under the dash, are they the same for both cars? I have seen kits for the 1931-67 but not for the 1930-47.

I would really appreciate your observation.

Thanks,
Dwight

[50jetback]

Dwight,

Here is info re model identification changes from an ealier thread

I'll add to the confusion!

Pre 1930 they tended to be referred to as Standard and Master - but as the Master models had some different wheelbases they also seemed to refer to them by wheelbase i.e a Standard 1928 Buick was referred to as a Series 115.

In late 1929/1930 with the introduction of the Marquette they designated them as Series 30 ( Marquette ) Series 40 ( 118" wheelbase ) Series 50 (124" wheelbase ) and Series 60 ( 132" wheelbase ).

In 1931 The wheels fell off!!!!

For some reason the Series 30 and 40 designations were dropped.

So in 1931 the Series 50 became the smallest Series and replaced the 30 Series which had a similar wheelbase ( which replaced the 30 Series Marquette and the early ones actually used remaining Marquette parts - such as Hotchkiss open drive shaft rear ends )
The 1931 Series 60 replaced the 1930 Series 40 ( 118" wheelbase ) and the Series 80 replaced the 1930 Series 60! and a Series 90 was introduced.

1932 and 1933 ran the same Series list.

1934 saw the introduction of the new experimental straight eight motor in the small series which saw Buick reintroduce the Series 40 designation for the new 117" wheelbase model ( which subsequently became termed the SPECIAL ) but the senior series - 60, 80 and 90 carried the same designation ( and old style straight 8 motor and basic mechanicals ) until 1936.

With the immediate success of the somewhat experimental 1934 Series 40 engine ( developed more horsepower than the larger series 50 engine ) Buick refined this motor over the next 2 years for its larger series cars and 1936 saw the following designations
Special Series ( Series 40 )
Century Series ( Series 60 which ran the new 320 cu in Straight 8 )
Roadmaster Series ( Series 80 also new 320 motor )
Limited Series ( Series 90 also new 320 motor )

Most things settled down for awhile and the only notable change was the 1937 introduction of the 248 straight 8 motor in the Special Series. This motor was a refinement of the somewhat experimental 1934/35/26 233 cu in Series 40 motor.

CONFUSED!!!

[Mark Shaw]

Stuart,
I have a 31-57 (small series) with a straight eight. So, the Straight eight started in 1931 here in N. America.

Therefore, I must correct your post "1934 saw the introduction of the new experimental straight eight motor in the small series". Maybe it was different down under???

[50jetback]

Well spotted Mark, just a little test to see if you blokes really read some of these posts!!

You are correct, 1931 saw the straight eight introduced in all series ( here as well ) and I missed a line after " in 1931 the wheels fell off " which should have explained even though all series had a straight eight the wheel bases had stayed the same but the Series designations had been changed.

My comment
1934 saw the introduction of the new experimental straight eight motor in the small series which saw Buick reintroduce the Series 40 designation for the new 117" wheelbase model ( which subsequently became termed the SPECIAL ) but the senior series - 60, 80 and 90 carried the same designation ( and old style straight 8 motor and basic mechanicals ) until 1936.

does refer to a newly introduced and somewhat experimental straight eight.


Some uncharitable Buick historians refer to the 1931 straight eight motors as the old six with two more cylinders. To some extent I can see what they mean, generator still gear driven with the water pump still bolted on the side of the motor and massive Marvel updraft carbs.


But the new motor introduced in the revisited 40 Series in 1934 was of an entirely new design. 233 cubic inch, water pump bolted to the front of the engine, generator belt driven, twin barrel downdraft carb - the list goes on. This new motor developed more HP than the larger 1931 style motor still used in the 50 Series and other Senior Series of 1934 and 1935. The power to weight ratio of the 1934/35 Series 40 models made them the fastest buicks in those years. It wasn't until 1936 when the new 320 cubic inch straight eight ( which was really a further development of the 1934 Series 40 motor ) replaced the old 1931 style motors in the senior series cars that they could lay claim to being faster and more powerful.


Mark - does you your 50 Series have the Hotchkiss open driveshaft rear end ( ex Marquett ) or is it later production with enclosed tailshaft?

[FLYER15015]

I mourned the day when the last "Roadmaster" rolled off the line...................
Mike in colorado

[par1]

Dwight,

The front kick panels are the same dimensions for the 1930 model 47 and the 1931 model 67. They were both covered in nogahide with a screen area opening the side vents.

Paul

[Dwight Romberger]

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks for comparing those for me me Paul. I really appreciate it. My kick panels were just a heavy black paper. No naugots to be found. Maybe they ran away.

[par1]

Dwight,

Sorry to reply so late as I travel a lot and haven't been on in a few months. Most of the cars that we have didn't have the nogahide covers and we didn't miss them anyway. Have you got the car running?

Paul

[Dwight Romberger]

Dwight,

Sorry to reply so late as I travel a lot and haven't been on in a few months. Most of the cars that we have didn't have the nogahide covers and we didn't miss them anyway. Have you got the car running?

Paul

Hi Paul,
No reason to be sorry. I disappear regularly. Most of the time they let me out after a 48-hour hold! The motors fires, but I have yet to re-install the radiator in my newly chromed surround. So, it's not a "running" car yet. I plain to take that step over Christmas vacation.
Dwight