Buick prewar identity

[peboy]

Hello to all, I am new in this forum, I sent a consultation before but I believe that I did it badly. Then I return to do the same consultation, probably someone could helpme.
I want to know it brings over of the identity and year of my engine Buick it is the number 2617414 and his casting number is <뤔Ŭ> 1248873-1 1248873-1. (1931 serie 80s or 1932?)
Also if there is record of the number and type of chassis that must be.
Also if the chassis of the cars with factory body were taking the same number that the chassis without factory body or another identification.
I will be been grateful to any information that I receive. Thank you very much, Peter.

[Thriller]

According to the BCA Judging Manual, it would be an appropriate engine number for a 1931 Series 80.

That is all the information I am able to provide.

[jscheib]

Peter,

Let me try to clarify your questions. There is a gentleman on this forum by the name of Dave Corbin, who will likely get on here and provide some details on the numbers you have.


I am not clear on your other questions but you seem concerned that this vehicle may have a custom body. If you have not looked, there should be a plate on the firewall on what is the passenger side (US models) that would help to identify the car. For a chassis number, Buick put those on a tag on the outside of the frame just inside the passenger side (again US) front wheel.

I mention US models as I suspect you may be writing from outside the US. If you suspect a custom body, of the 1931-31 era, it is likely that your car could have been a cowl only car and many going into Europe (England in particular) came from Canada and would have right hand drive.

We should be able to help you with a bit more information. If possible, try to post some digital photos and see what we can help you better identify this car.

John

[peboy]

Mr john and Mr. Derek, thankyou for your information. I write from Argentina, Sudamérica, my English is poor, my excuses.
The car has the incomplete body, I am sure that is not body of factory, it is in a condition of disaster and I must study it very well before beginning full restoration.The parts of mechanics it is complete with his wheels inclusive. It has very much rust.
I cannot have the car in my house, the car is in the place far from my house and I go every three or four months. When I begin to restore it I will bring it to the city.
The car has a lot of time carelessly.
This one is the reason of my need of information. Thankyou again, Peter

[jscheib]

Peter,

If you can check the places I mentioned for the numbers and maybe attach some photos that would be of considerable help.

In the meantime, I have had communication with someone in B. A. some time ago and I will try to get his e-mail address so you can communicate. Maybe he will be seeing this and respond. His was a Model 58C and he was able to find parts from a 57 that was made into a hot rod somewhere in Argentina.

He has a restoration shop and may be of some help to you.

No need to apologize for the English language. Our use of Spanish on this forum would not be as clear.

Looking forward to hearing more. Is the car lleft hand or right hand drive? Perhaps you have an interesting custom bodies car.

Keep in touch.

John

[peboy]

Mr.John
The first step that I will give this year will be to repair the engine, this, for the moment, it is my only worry, because it is very expensive here in my country and I want to repair it well, Mr. Derek Triller has said to me that it is a serie 80. I have confidence in this information. I have understood that this one is different from other straight eight and that this one is like series 90.(344 c.i. straight 8 with a compression ratio of 4.5:1 making 104 hp and 250 ft-lb of torque).
Now I must study about 80 series. I will look for all the possible information.
I will make measure the wheelbase soon, when I make stripped the car.
I will continue reading this forum that is very good and very necessary for my.
I give them thanks to you for the effort that you do, and all yours knowledge, which give me spirits to begin the work, that I am not alone, really I am surprised.
Thank you very much, Peter

[jscheib]

Peter,

I tried a search on the Buick Forum for the person with a shop in B.A. and could not find it. I quess I also did not save his old e-mails but will continue checking if I have any hard copy information. I am not sure in which city you reside, but if it is in B.A. perhaps you can track down all the restoration shops, as he does work for European customers and ships cars from South America to Europe after restoration, becuase of favorable labor rates.

It has been about 2 years since our last communications, but I will try to see if I can find any contact information. I do have some saved photos of his car, but not the address.

I will let you know.

John

[peboy]

John, I live in Buenos Aires, though the car is in the farm, far from my home, I know people who has here classic and antique cars, I will ask to my friends about of some person who knows about Buicks in Buenos Aires.
Probably I could find it.
I cannot see the car often until I bring it to the city. Next year problably. Now I have the engine to begin his complete repair.
Do you know the quantity of cars that Buick made in 1931 and of every series?
Thank you very much for your help. Peter

[jscheib]

Peter,

I can send you the two photos I have, and both show the car and the owners flat bed truck, so maybe by looking at the part of the truck you will be able to help identify. Rather then do this on the forum, if you provided me with an e-mail address, I can send them direct. Meanwhile, I will continue to search my files as I have timw this week to see if we can get you some better info.

The '31s and '32s to share some common items, but also have some differences. I will also look up the production numbers and let you know this also.

John

[Thriller]

1931 Series 80

Model 86 - 2 door coupe - $1535, 4120 lbs., 3579 built
Model 87 - 4 door sedan - $1565, 4255 lbs., 14,731 built

Entire production for the 1931 model year was 138,965. I do have a book with all the series, but that would be a lot of typing (22 models). I can try to type it up in the next day or two.

[peboy]

Mr. Derek and Mr. Jhon , Thank you again for yours help. Peter

[Thriller]

You are welcome. I just try to do what I can on this site to help others out.

[peboy]

Mr.Derek
I have a problem, I have asked to my people in the farm that they measure the wheelbase, and they said to my that it is approximately 3,35 meters, more or less 132 ". Then if this engine belongs to the series 80 the chassis is of the series 90 and does not correspond. Is it correct this?
Anyhow when I am going to see the car again I will measure personally. I cannot understand this.
Than you, Peter

[jscheib]

Peter,

The wheelbase for 80 series is 126" and 90 series is 134", so your measurments estimates and conversion from metric, unless quite some distance off, does suggest the larger series.

You never did indicate if there was a cowl tag on the firewall, so it seems that there is none. I do not recall initially what made you feel it was an 80 series car? Also, can anyone find the chassis number as I suggested, on the frame, outside near the right front wheel? Thios too would allow identification.

John

[jscheib]

Peter,

My error. In my haste, I forgot you have a 1931. The whelbases I provided were for a 1932 are different. For1931 they are reported as 80 series - 124" and 90 series 132". So, it seems you may have a 90 series car, in which case there weer 8 different models, while only 2 in the 80 series.

John

[peboy]

Mrs. John and Mr Derek, I think that the mistery is revealed about de body, I called today again to my people and they said to me that in the firewall they found tag that I understand is the model, in it is write
BUICK-MOTOR-CO
31.Mod 8-96
Mo.... D... Year.(here is broken). (Where is "..." they can¨t see nothing write)
Conclusión, the body is 96, and the
engine number 2617414,
the casting number is 1248873espace and two number more that I can¨t to remember now) because the engine is not in my home but is near, here in the city and now is later.
Them the frame is 90 series y the engine is 80 series? It is possible and right?
My apologies for a lot of questions. Thank you, Peter.

[peboy]

Mr.John and Mr.Derek, I forgot said to you that mi people can¨t find the tag in the frame still. Thank again, Peter.

[jscheib]

Month, Day and Year is almost always empty, but Dave Corbin should be able to tell regarding the engine, but I understand the 80 and 90 series used the same engine. Being a few inches shorter and limited variety of models the 80 series might have been lighter and thus likely a bit faster, in its day.

If there is no letter behiend the 96 then this car was a 2 door, 5 passenger Coupe. If 96C, it was a 2 door, 4 passenger convertible coupe. There were only 7705 of the coupes produced, and only 1066 of the 96C produced.

As you think it might have had another body provided some time ago, only photos might provide a hint.

If the tag had a X after the Model number, this would have indicated that it was a chassis and cowl only produced for export and for a custom body to be fitted in the importing country. So it would seem this car was exported after US purchase and perhaps a "one-off" body constructed some time ago.

I guess the question for restoration is to try to get it back to original look, or what the custom body had in mind, or possibly create your own, similar to the "speedster" era cars used in racing in the thirties.

We are anxious to see some photos of what you have. It is too bad the chassis number cannot be located as that might better identify the time the car was built.

Good luck.

John

[peboy]

Mr.John, when I will to the farm I will look good the tags personally, also I will take photos.and them I tell you.
Definitively it is not an auto body of factory. I have seen in Internet the auto bodies of factory for series 90. This one is opened but for 2 persons very spartan and big. I like it in this way and I will try to preserve his design.
Though it is very damaged and with rust, I will follow his line like it was.
His restoration is more economic and me there pleases much more than the auto bodies of factory, this one is more sports.
I am not going to change the auto body into a speesdter.
I am going to investigate if the auto body was make in Argentina or it was make in USA.
Really I want to know if the engine that I extracted always was in the car.
I feel that I am more near for to do a good and right restoration.
For now y will continue for engine repair. All information that you can give me it will be
fantastic. Thank you and best Regards. Peter.

[jscheib]

Peter,

As I mentioned above, it might be best if I sent you some information on where to obtain parts directly if you provided me an e-mail address. You can contact me atj.scheib@comcast.net and provide your e-mail address. I would also send you the two photos I have of the '32 in Argentina so perhaps you can track down the owner from the photos of his truck (I realize B. A. is a big city, but you never know).

I also would refer you to a forum subject, in the Pre-War section that refers to coach built bodies. I will try to get the full name. THis has some photos of 30's coach built bodies that may be of help to you.

We would also love to learn the history of this car.

John

[jscheib]

Peter,

Scroll down on this forum till you find 1940-1941 Buick Brunn Bodied Coachwork. In that thread, pages 7 and 8 have a few photos of early '30s recognized coach built bodies. You may have enough left of your car which would suggest that it might be one of these designs.

Good luck with that search.

John

[DaveCorbin]

Dear Peter:
The engine number you give of 2,617,414 is in the first 4000 engine numbers for 80/90 series Buicks in 1931. This indicates that it is an early 1931 car, whch also makes it one of the very first straight 8's.
If you post the frame number, which is on a small tag on the side of the right frame rail behind the right front wheel, I can identify thr car exactly as to model. It should be a number around 2,475,000.
Regards, Dave Corbin

[peboy]

Mr.Dave, I will look for the tag personally when I will go to the family¨s girl friend farm, I don´t want that my people touch the car, because they are expert to the land and cow and I afraid that lost or broke some parts when they took the car. The car is very bad rust and now I have it very garaged.
It was outside a lot of time because nobody had interest in it. They said to me it was not useful in the farm and was bought it very cheap only for the big engine for the electric generator, but they could not down the expensive spent gasoline.
Mis excuses for my English, I hope you can understand me. Regards. Peter.

[jscheib]

Peter,

I am gald to see things progressing, and I hope you can locate that chassis number when you next see the car.

Yoiu miht want to know, but throughout, eastern Canada, and NE US (Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, the same Buick engines were taken from vcars and the metal car scrapped, with the engines used to power saw mills directly, as they were remote without electricity.

Some were also pressed into duty to operate early rope tow ski lifts in these same area.

Have you had a chance to look at the coach built cars yet on the forum?

John

[peboy]

Mr.John, I sent email to you, but it came back for "failure notice". I will try again.
I saw same coachbuilders in this foro, but they were after 1931, I will look for others, I have a lot time more for to start body restauración.
Happily the engine they did not manage to use it for advice of an engineer. According to the papers of purchase that I have it was in the year 1990,
from this date nobody touched the car. (and nobody was careful).
I will send news soon.
Regards and thank you, Pedro.