Dual brake cylinder for a '54 Roadmaster?

bosco001 · 2 Weeks Ago

I'm all for originality. But, in a concession to safety, is it possible to install a dual cylinder brake system in a '54 Roadmaster that has power brakes? If so, is there a shop anywhere close to Indiana with the knowledge and experience to perform the work?

BTW, I also posted this message in the Buick Performance/Modified forum have come to realize I should've put here.

JohnD1956 · 2 Weeks Ago

I'm sure nothing is impossible. But I'm sure you're talking a big dollar project. Just for a moment, can you explain what safety issue you feel requires such a modification? I have heard people say this before and I am curious.

MrEarl · 2 Weeks Ago

Get Brad54 to tell ya the story of his sailin through an intersection one morning on his way to work when the single brake cylinder failed on his 54 Special. I guess it just comes down to when dealing with brakes, a back up cylinder is a pretty good thang to have.

brad54 · 2 Weeks Ago

When you have a single-reservoir system, there is one "bucket" that holds the brake fluid, and there are four wheel cylinders that are fed by that fluid. A hydraulic system works on line-pressure. If you have all four lines feeding out of one bucket, when one of those lines bursts, ALL the pressure goes through the hole, and none of the pressure goes to either of the other cylinders.

With a dual reservoir system, you have the front cylinders running out of one reservoir, the rear brakes out of a second reservoir. If you burst a line, blow a wheel cylinder, etc. on one of the lines, you'll lose that pair, but you'll still have the other pair working. For instance, if you blow a rear wheel cylinder, you'll still have front brakes. With a single reservoir system, if you blow a rear wheel cylinder, you'll lose all brakes.

"What about the emergency brake?" you say. If you blow a rear wheel cylinder, you've hosed the inside of a brake drum with brake fluid... brake fluid makes a fantastic short-term lubricant. I can tell you with complete confidence that a '54 Buick Special will NOT stop in a reasonable distance from 35mph while applying the emergency brake to the one good remaining rear drum. Nor will slamming the Synchromesh trans down through the gears to First.

I installed a dual reservoir manual master cylinder kit with a remote reservoir for a first generation ('53-'62) Corvette from Master Power Brakes. I would imagine a power brake kit with a small booster would also work.

-Brad

bosco001 · 2 Weeks Ago

Brad,

Your explaination was "spot on". Couldn't have said it better myself.

The lack of replies offering a fix to this problem is rather surprising. I would've thought this issue to be one that has come up many times - indicating that someone has come up with a tried and true "work around" solution. No? Surely, I'm not the only one to have raised this issue before now.

Hoping to get some ideas on this. Thanks.

mrspeedyt · 2 Weeks Ago

"we don't need no stinkin' power brakes!"

...anon

JohnD1956 · 2 Weeks Ago

I can understand the benefit of having a dual master cylinder. But the installation on earlier than 57 Buicks seems like a major job, and it would seem that for the same, or a lot less money, one could replace all the wheel cylinders, flex hoses and brake lines and feel relatively secure in the brake system.

Of course I say that assuming that the car would be used on a limited basis, is probably an automatic (where shifting to low for braking is available), the brakes including the parking brake are adequately maintained and periodically adjusted, and one drives with adequate space between themselves and the car in front.

I know that all risk cannot be eliminated even under these assumptions, but it seems that if one were following these assumptions, the risk is rather small vs the amount to be invested in the modification.

trp3141592 · 2 Weeks Ago

Hi,

Although I have not put a dual system on the Monster, I did at one time give serious consideration as to how I might do it. My proposed solution was to install a bolt-in replacement brake cylinder, pedal, leverage, and power brake booster from an aftermarket source in the Street Rod hobby. Guys who are rodding their highly customized chassis (I looked it up--"chassis" is the plural form of "chassis." How bizarre...) look to both firewall and underfloor applications of entire new master cylinder and hardware systems. Cost for the assembly is under $300.00. Google "street rod power brake systems" for a number of suppliers.

I eventually decided against doing the conversion. The Monster gets less than 500 miles a year, gets its fluid flushed every spring, has a working parking brake, and gets a controlled conditions slam-on test at the start of its first run every year. In my case it didn't seem to me to be worth the time and expense of converting its brakes.

--Tom

brad54 · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnD1956

I can understand the benefit of having a dual master cylinder. But the installation on earlier than 57 Buicks seems like a major job, and it would seem that for the same, or a lot less money, one could replace all the wheel cylinders, flex hoses and brake lines and feel relatively secure in the brake system.

Of course I say that assuming that the car would be used on a limited basis, is probably an automatic (where shifting to low for braking is available), the brakes including the parking brake are adequately maintained and periodically adjusted, and one drives with adequate space between themselves and the car in front.

I know that all risk cannot be eliminated even under these assumptions, but it seems that if one were following these assumptions, the risk is rather small vs the amount to be invested in the modification.

I DID replace all the wheel cylinders, rubber hoses and even the hard lines. The brake system was 100-percent replaced and new when I went on my little excursion.

To be honest with you, it really chaps my ass when people say "maintain adequate distance between you and the next car." I drove that car every day for a year and a half, and I ALWAYS left enough space, because other driver's are idiots. I also slowed down PLENTY early coming to intersections. In fact, I slowed down enough on that day to not only realize I had a problem, but to climb up on the emergency brake with all my weight, and slam the manual trans down into Second (clutch was in because I was already slowing down), and then again to First, before finally coming to a stop in the middle of the far lane at the intersection.

The whole circus started at only 40mph, as that was the speedlimit on that section of road. When the wheel cylinder blew, I was going about 35mph. A single, skinny rear drum on a '54 Special will not stop a car going 35mph in anything like a reasonable distance. The park brake was properly adjusted, but one of the shoes was coated with fluid from the blown cylinder. The one that blew was a new store-bought unit.

My currently daily driver is a '62 Suburban, and I've also completely rebuilt the brakes on it, including adding self-adjust mechanisms and a power booster. I recently blew a rear wheel cylinder on it as well, and that one I rebuilt myself.

There's a reason the Fed. Government mandated dual chamber brake systems, and it wasn't to cost the automotive manufacturers money.

-Brad

JohnD1956 · 2 Weeks Ago

You obviously have had a eye opening experience. You surely had sufficient room between you and others around you since you were able to react without crashing into anyone else. My feeling is some people just fail to realize how close they are to the next car and put too much blind faith in their own ability to react and stop. But that remark is not directed to you or, any one else either. It was just a clarifier to justify my feelings about the topic.

I have had brakes fail on me twice, in Dad's 65 Electra. In both cases it was the master cylinder. So I know first hand how you initially felt when your brakes did not work. I would not wish that experience on anyone.