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Thread: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Hi gents, I am about to view the above that is basically a rolling chassis with a running engine and gearbox, the prop has been removed to ease movement. My understanding is that it comes with a full set of parts with the exception of:- missing sidemount covers, door cards, wood is there on the headlining but no fabric or vinyl, glass is missing and it requires a 10" steel plate welding under the rumble seat. Apart from a few dents or dings the body is sound as are the fenders and hood.

    Almost all of its life it was based in South Africa and not shipped to the UK until 2002 where it has been dry stored for the last 10 yrs.

    Here's the difficult part, I know nothing of the Plymouth brand or what should be there and is not, bit of a no brainer I know, but with pension funds the way they are now, could this be a worthwhile project for the future or just another money pit?

    What are your thoughts.
    Tom

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    Senior Member keiser31's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Sounds like a great car, but without photos, it is hard to tell if the most important parts are there and their condition. I would suggest that if you purchase it, you will do so for the enjoyment and maybe to keep it otherwise (depending on the condition) you will probably not make a profit if buying to fix up and resell. There are very sought after cars.
    1931 Dodge Brothers DH6 business coupe w/ wire wheels
    1931 Dodge Brothers DH6 business coupe w/ wood wheels (my 1st car and still have it)
    and visions of my past old cars....

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser31 View Post
    Sounds like a great car, but without photos, it is hard to tell if the most important parts are there and their condition. I would suggest that if you purchase it, you will do so for the enjoyment and maybe to keep it otherwise (depending on the condition) you will probably not make a profit if buying to fix up and resell. There are very sought after cars.

    I will have photos next wkend 19/20th and as far as I know the glass is the only major parts that is not there, things like the twin horns, door furniture, window winder especially the rear window mechanism are all there, radiator core and chrome shell which is good, headlights with glass and mountings, seats have been retrimmed, full instrument panel, loom rewired. Not sure if the rad cap is there or not and the rear lights are thought to be wrong but may have been standard in the export pack sent to SA. back in 1933.

    My intention would be to restore to a good standard and run for 10yrs or so then depending on how it stands up to the British climate either pass down thru the family or sell on.

    These are all I have to go on at present.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by TomP; January 14th, 2013 at 01:21.
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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Ment to say it also comes with the original master parts list with pictures and a copy of the owners handbook. Just found this photo which shows 87384 miles which may not be correct but could be a guide

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by TomP; January 14th, 2013 at 02:12. Reason: photo added
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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    It's amazing how many of these things STILL show up even in 2013. The car is a 1933 'De Luxe Plymouth Six' Model PD. This is important to remember as there is an earlier 1933 Plymouth called the Model PC which is an entirely different car at least as far as the body and inside thingys go. It's oil bath air cleaner is off a much later car. And the carb appears to be later also. Depends on whether you want to just drive it or restore it to 'original'. Over here these coupes are worth quite a bit to the hot rodders. Very few are being restored if they are in the condition this one is. The hot rodders drop in a 350 Chev V8 engine and auto tranny and chrome everything in sight. The coupe is a very desirable version of a 1930s car regardless of brand. You seem to have most of the car even to the hubcaps so it seems worth buying. In it's present condition I would not pay more that $10000 or 5K Pounds. You're going to put another 2K/3K Pounds into it and an original 1933 Plymouth coupe is not bringing much more that $20K/$25K today. If you can get buyer. Times are low and slow for antiques right now.
    Last edited by DodgeKCL; January 14th, 2013 at 12:31.

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Yes this is the PD some 3" longer in the front end with a 112 wheelbase? , I have found out today that the mascot is also included. This is too good to chop although each to their own. My thoughts are the same as your regarding its worth to me personally apart from I think it may cost a little more to restore in the UK. I am able to cope with the machanics and tin work but paint over here is pricey, 2k minimum for a bare metal respay, but time will tell at the wkend, the seller knows where to go so I can talk that one thru.

    Watch this space.
    Tom

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    What floor should there be steel or ply??
    Tom

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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    There was a lot of plywood in the floor of a 1933 Plymouth. The battery inspection cover is metal and the toe board is steel. The front seat bridges across the car and sits on metal but the rear floor has a chunk of plywood in it. The rear of the body has some hard wood uprights fixed to the body to hold the seat in place. But the rear seat sits in a metal body stamping. The rest of the car is electric wire welded metal pieces but you will find wood strips fixed in metal body and door channels to tack the upholstery to. This went on for years and is not 1933 specific.

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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    There was a lot of plywood in the floor of a 1933 Plymouth. The battery inspection cover is metal and the toe board is steel however. The front seat bridges across the car and sits on metal but the rear floor has a chunk of plywood in it. The rear of the body has some hard wood uprights fixed to the body to hold the seat in place. But the rear seat sits in a metal body stamping. The rest of the car is electric wire welded metal pieces but you will find wood strips fixed in metal body and door channels to tack the upholstery to. This went on for years and is not 1933 specific.

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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Those aircleaners were pretty common in Australia on 1933-34 Dodges and Plyms I think.

    Manuel in Oz

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    It's a done deal

    Managed to strike a deal on Saturday with the owner, I paid more than I wanted and he got less, its the part of buying and selling I most dislike. The metal is in incredible condition apart from the last section in the trunk floor, quite a straight forward piece to make.

    The floor is another thing, its steel to the back of the front bench, under the bench is ply with an inspection hole to access the battery, the toe boards are wood and we have a hole thru to the dirt in front of the bench, will post pics after I collect it.

    Could do with some info on the sidemount tin and has anybody got the metalwork to secure the covers?
    Tom

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    Senior Member ply33's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Don't know how I managed to miss this thread for a whole week...

    Most of you immediate questions already answered but I thought I'd toss in that Chrysler shipped "totally knocked down" cars to England where they were locally assembled and fitted with locally sourced interiors. For 1933, the Plymouth was sold and marketed in England as a "Chrysler Kew 6". The English version had a small bore export motor and right hand drive but other than that the mechanicals were, near as I can tell from the parts book, pretty much the same as for the US version. I don't know how many were sold or how well they survived but there is a possibility that some mechanical parts could be found locally to you.

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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    The toe board running up under the cowl/'scuttle' should be a steel stamping. Has it been changed or is that part of the local body? Is it actually a Chrysler Kew 6 or a Plymouth? If it was shipped from Canada to South Africa,which appears to be the case, I don't believe it would have been a Kew 6. From what I see on the internet today of the survivors in South Africa,India,Finland,Denmark, Austarlia and New Zealand they were called Plymouths. They were only built up as Chrysler Kew 6s in England at Kew Gardens. If it's not a Kew 6 it will have our North American 3 1/8" bore 3.111 litre 70 hp. engine.

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    Senior Member ply33's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeKCL View Post
    The toe board running up under the cowl/'scuttle' should be a steel stamping. Has it been changed or is that part of the local body? Is it actually a Chrysler Kew 6 or a Plymouth? If it was shipped from Canada to South Africa,which appears to be the case, I don't believe it would have been a Kew 6. From what I see on the internet today of the survivors in South Africa,India,Finland,Denmark, Austarlia and New Zealand they were called Plymouths. They were only built up as Chrysler Kew 6s in England at Kew Gardens. If it's not a Kew 6 it will have our North American 3 1/8" bore 3.111 litre 70 hp. engine.
    I did not mean to imply that it was a Chrysler Kew 6 but rather he might be able to find some parts locally if he widened his search to include Kew 6 parts...

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Yes it is the Plymouth PD Deluxe Late 1933 with the 189 cu in staight 6
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    once its home I will be able to confirm the Vin and engine Nos. so that I can get age related docs for UK registration. Where would I go to get the age related docs??
    Tom

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by ply33 View Post
    I did not mean to imply that it was a Chrysler Kew 6 but rather he might be able to find some parts locally if he widened his search to include Kew 6 parts...
    Thanks for that info but I'm of the opinion that most of the Kew 6's are long gone. Is there a register of what cars exist and where?
    Tom

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    Senior Member ply33's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Yes it is the Plymouth PD Deluxe Late 1933 with the 189 cu in staight 6
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    once its home I will be able to confirm the Vin and engine Nos. so that I can get age related docs for UK registration. Where would I go to get the age related docs??
    For North American built cars you can get a copy of the "build card" from the Chrysler Historical Collection. So once you get the serial number (right front door hinge post (passenger side for LHD)) you can use a look up tool like the one I have at Plymouth First Decade: Where is the VIN? I only have North American numbers on it, so if it has a hit then it should tell you that there is a chance that Chrysler Historical will have the information about your car. Information about build cards is at Plymouth First Decade: Build Cards on my site.

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    Senior Member ply33's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Thanks for that info but I'm of the opinion that most of the Kew 6's are long gone. Is there a register of what cars exist and where?
    Plymouth Owners Club attempts to maintain a registry of surviving cars. Their web site is at Home page of the Plymouth Owners Club Bulletin Jim Benjaminson will be the person you will want to contact at that club. He is the membership secretary.

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by ply33 View Post
    Plymouth Owners Club attempts to maintain a registry of surviving cars. Their web site is at Home page of the Plymouth Owners Club Bulletin Jim Benjaminson will be the person you will want to contact at that club. He is the membership secretary.
    Thanks for the link Mr F have touched base with Jim, very interesting.
    Tom

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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Those North American numbers do not include Canadian numbers. Chrysler Canada threw all their old photos and build sheets out in about 1950. Your Plymouth has to be made in the U.S. to get the build sheet for it which Chrysler Corp. did keep. Your Plymouth was most likely made in Windsor Ont. Canada at Chrysler Motors (as it was called then). It was most likely made as a "Knock-down Job" and sent in a 'box' to it's overseas destination. I know at Kew Gardens where the '33 Plymouth was badge engineered as a 'Kew 6', it had home grown Lucas electrics (!!!!) put on it in lieu of Delco Remy and also leather upholstery. Tires were Dunlap or equals and batteries were home grown as well. They also had the mandated running lights on the tops of each front fender. I also believe the glass may of been local. And they were of course all right hand drive. Some also had sliding 'sun roofs' installed at Kew. I have 2 books from about the 1980s that were printed in England and show all the English ads and magazine write-ups for Chyslers and Dodges through the 30s in England. Ply33 does not list Canadian serial numbers for 1933 Plymouths only U.S. numbers. However it's quite simple; if the right door post is a 9 million number (9,xxx,xxx) it was made in Ontario Canada. Detroit did make vehicles for overseas,they made DeSoto cars and Fargo trucks for many years and shipped them around the world, but your Plymouth was most likely made in Canada because of something called British Commonwealth Preferential Treatment. We'll know where it was made for sure when you find the serial number. I understand the licence plate number stayed the same through out the life of the vehicle in England so you can find where it lived and who owned it right back to the first day? Right? There is a restored 'Kew 6' aka 1933 Plymouth PC in the midlands owned by an ex bobby by the name of Shakespeare. You might want to look it up.
    Last edited by DodgeKCL; January 28th, 2013 at 15:22.

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    In the next few days I shall have the car back in N Devon, then I can check out all the No. and we will see where that takes us. The only No. I have at present is of 5 digets which I think may be the frame No. but thats a guess on my part. As said before this car was exported to South Africa where it spent its life until 2002 when it was inported to England and it has never been UK registered. I am lead to believe this could be the only known 33 PD of this body style un the UK, there is another but its a rag top. As I said the car will be with me Sunday next so lets wait and see.
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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Turns out that its a Detroit built car, don't know if it was exported in kit form but now have the details to apply for a copy of the build card.
    Thank you for the info you have given me.
    Tom

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    Tom TomP's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Still trying to find what I can and have now received my copy of the Build Card. It tells me that the car was built for export to Johannesburg SA Sept. 33 the trim was leather 401 and paint was 545, can one of you wizards give me info of what those codes actually mean.
    Thanks
    Tom

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    Senior Member ply33's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Still trying to find what I can and have now received my copy of the Build Card. It tells me that the car was built for export to Johannesburg SA Sept. 33 the trim was leather 401 and paint was 545, can one of you wizards give me info of what those codes actually mean.
    Thanks
    DodgeKCL might have some factory service bulletins that mention that, but Chrysler Historical has lost track of any paint or trim code prior to 1934. However the numbers followed a pattern that seems to have lasted several years with the 500 series usually being gray/grey colors. Only gray I see on my documentation for the 1933 PD rumble seat coupe is "Durode Gray".

    With respect to the trim number, the fact that 401 was leather is new to me and I can't hazard a guess that would tell one leather option from another.
    Last edited by ply33; March 19th, 2013 at 19:05.

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    Senior Member DodgeKCL's Avatar
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    Re: Viewing a 33 PD rumble seat coupe RHD

    'Line colors' for basic colors were 246-xxxxx. So I assume your color was 246-545. For instance line metallic color formula ingredients were 202-xxxx's but when mixed the 1st metallic paint for Plymouth became 246-31326 French Taupe No. 4 Duco.

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