Budd Wire Wheel Spoke Torque?

oldodgeboys · November 15th, 2009

Does someone have experience setting the spoke torque on late '20s Budd wire wheels?

The spoke manufacturer told me 80 in/lbs, but that seems pretty high.

nearchoclatetown · November 15th, 2009

6.6 foot pounds is not very much.

oldodgeboys · November 15th, 2009

The spoke shop was pretty clear that the torque was relatively high.

All 60 of the spoke threads in each wheel are 5/6 gauge wire...about the size of a #8 or #10 machine screw.

I'm not sure how much wire tension these torque values will generate. Do you?

How much torque have you been using?

nearchoclatetown · November 16th, 2009

If the spoke manufacturer recommended 80 in/lb, that converts to 6.6 ft/lb which is not very much. The Budd spoke wrench I have is only about 4 inches long, can't pull very high torque reading with that. Practise on a number 10 screw in a vise, you will realise 80in/lb is not much.

oldodgeboys · November 16th, 2009

I'm pretty familiar with torque values and I've used many torque wenches from 4 foot long torque wrenches on airplanes to ultra-small torque watches on precision instruments. I've specified, purchased, and calibrated torque wrenches for work.

I wonder which torque values have been working for people with these Budd rims. Real world experience with real torque numbers would be great. I know that my feelings don't equate to known tension or the required preload of the spoke itself. If I can derive the torque values empirically (previous data submitted by the people who have actually done it), I think I would have a good starting point.

It would be great if I could confirm the 80 in/lb setting, or question it.

I also have to think about Model A wire wheels...they were welded. I'm not real sure how they built those wheels, but it would be hard to believe they put much (any?) tension on the spokes as they were being welded.

JACK M · November 16th, 2009

I dont know anything about these, but the question comes to mind.
Would one not need to true the wheel then worry about torque. Would not the torque increase on the opposite spoke when tightening, say the top would get tighter when the bottom was tightened? I have a friend that trues up motorcycle wheels every day but have never had a conversation with him about it, other than he doesnt like it because it is a hassel.
Bottom line...I dont think you can just torque the spokes and expect the wheel to be true.

oldodgeboys · November 16th, 2009

Thats right. First you must (mostly) true the wheel, then set the torque, and finish truing. It's a hassle and I'm not looking forward to it.

I believe that many shops have a varied selection of wheels they do, so its tough for them to make a jig or fixture to get the wheel started. In my case I'm making a jig to set the hub and rim in (close) proximity, then I'll progressively set the torque and spin the wheel with a pair of dial indicators.

These wheels don't run true like new wheels and I don't expect a lot of precision in them...but we'll see.

JACK M · November 17th, 2009

Let us know how this comes out. And how many hours it takes for the first one vs the last one.
Good Luck

oldodgeboys · November 17th, 2009

I dug out my dusty in/lb torque wrench last night. It has a range up to 80 in/lbs. Although the wrench is not in the ideal range, it should still work.

I pulled the wrench to 80 in/lbs and found that nearchoclatetown was right in saying it doesn't seem like much torque. Still though, 60 spokes times the amount of tension in the actual spoke could add up to quite a bit (I would think?).

If someone has torqued spokes on these wheels before, please let me know what has worked for you.

In the mean time, I've started my calender timer for the first wheel. The last wheel will hopefully be done with a clock.

DDewey · November 17th, 2009

When I did bicycle wheels, I would "pluck" the spokes, the sound will tell you how tight they are. Should work with car wheels to, I'd think.
David D.