62 Starfire Disc Brake Conversion

[kdthomp]

Has anyone done a disc brake conversion on a 62 Starfire? I noticed the latest OCA's JWO has a 62 station wagon with front disc brakes. The rear isn't a problem, but I've noticed the front brakes are only common to 61 or 62. Makes Hollander searching a little difficult.

[Mike Pemberton]

I just finished a conversion for a 61 Olds. I will do the conversion for the price of the kit which is $185.00 plus the additional shipping and insurance which is about $30.00. You will need to ship me a spindle, spindle washer and nut and the steering arm. I need these parts to proof the installation. The kit will come with a parts list, pictures, hardware, instructions and tech support. I will bench install your spindle and re-ship to you assembled. You will need to buy all the related brake parts off of the list. All parts are GM off the shelf re-manufactured. All parts are off of a 4400lb mid 70's GM product all engineered to go together and can be obtained from a donor car or at a good parts store like a Napa Store.
Email me if you are interested. Have several referral sources at Hot Rod shops etc. Have aprox 75 kits of similar nature on the road as we speak.

Thanks

Mike Pemberton OCA # 15766
963 Old Nevada Way
Gardnerville, Nevada 89460
Toll free on my cell 510-501-6299

[D Yaros]

Mike,

This is the 2nd 5 yr. + old message I have replied to in a week!

Are you still here? Are you still doing this? Does your conversion permit the continued use of 14" wheels?

[D Yaros]

Rec'd a message on another forum from a guy who says the 68-69 full-sized Olds, spindles, rotors and calipers are a direct swap. He did the conversion on a 1961 Olds.

However, I do not know that this conversion permits the use of the factory OEM 14" steel wheels?

[joe_padavano]

Rec'd a message on another forum from a guy who says the 68-69 full-sized Olds, spindles, rotors and calipers are a direct swap. He did the conversion on a 1961 Olds.

However, I do not know that this conversion permits the use of the factory OEM 14" steel wheels?

The bigger problem is that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars are NOT available from the aftermarket.

[Jim_Edwards]

It would be great if this conversion would work with 14" wheels, but I suspect the rotor diameter is too great for that to be the case with any stock OE wheel or any 14" wheel. '68 cars had 15" wheels.

Unfortunately, Raybestos doesn't any longer provide information on the diameter of that rotor online. In fact they don't even any longer supply the rotor. It appears that new rotors would have to be import and one has to be very careful that the import rotors meets original OE specs or even Federal safety specs. Brembo imports from Italy do for what it is worth. Stay away from Chinese as material thickness is marginal from the git-go.

Given I have one '62 Starfire I'm running OE 14" wheels on and one I have 15" wheels on I may well be giving that a try, assuming I can find a donor car and a two chamber master cylinder that will work with the OE booster.

Jim

[Jim_Edwards]

The bigger problem is that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars are NOT available from the aftermarket.

Joe, Brembo may be the only new aftermarket rotors available. They come from Italy and are a quality product. They offer three different quality grades with the lowest being the product that meets OE specs. The latter being reasonably priced at around $41.00 each, but one is probably not going to find them in stock at their neighborhood parts store. Rebuilt calipers are available from Raybestos, as well as others.

I should have mentioned that Brembo is licensed by GM to produce aftermarket products to GM Specifications.

Jim

[joe_padavano]

Joe, Brembo may be the only new aftermarket rotors available.

I would be amazed if Brembo made exact replacement rotors for these cars. The disk brake option was rare when the cars were new, and no source that I'm aware of, domestic or offshore, lists rotors for these cars. Kanter doesn't even have them. This is a common topic on the various Oldsmobile forums on the web, and there has been no satisfactory answer. Some have suggested that the 71-76 full size car rotors will work, but to date there has been no proof of this.

[Jim_Edwards]

I would be amazed if Brembo made exact replacement rotors for these cars. The disk brake option was rare when the cars were new, and no source that I'm aware of, domestic or offshore, lists rotors for these cars. Kanter doesn't even have them. This is a common topic on the various Oldsmobile forums on the web, and there has been no satisfactory answer. Some have suggested that the 71-76 full size car rotors will work, but to date there has been no proof of this.

Joe you would be right about Brembo on second examination thanks to a bit of a misleading distributors web site. The manufacturer is Disc Italia not Brembo, the distributor who has them in stock is (I called to verify) Brakeworld in Greer, South Carolina. 866-272-5396

:: Brakeworld ::

Jim

[joe_padavano]

Joe you would be right about Brembo on second examination thanks to a bit of a misleading distributors web site. The manufacturer is Disc Italia not Brembo, the distributor who has them in stock is (I called to verify) Brakeworld in Greer, South Carolina. 866-272-5396

:: Brakeworld ::

Jim

I'm still not sure what you're looking at. When I go to that website and use their pulldown menus to search for 1969 Oldsmobile, the only model options I get are A-bodies or Toronado. Not one full size in sight.

[Jim_Edwards]

I'm still not sure what you're looking at. When I go to that website and use their pulldown menus to search for 1969 Oldsmobile, the only model options I get are A-bodies or Toronado. Not one full size in sight.

Joe, sent you an E-Mail on this application. Will post anything I find to the contrary here upon discovery.

Jim

[Jim_Edwards]

I am correcting myself on the question of rotors being available for full size '68-'69 Oldsmobiles. Neither of the companies I mentioned actually produce those rotors, and as Joe P. correctly pointed out neither does anyone else.

Now if Dave can give us a link to that forum regarding the conversion he mentioned I for one would like to read it. After thinking about it, I'd bet it was not done without messing up the steering geometry to one extent or another.

Jim

[helfen]

I know this webb site is for stock cars so I'm jumping in just to help here. I have a 62 Pontiac Catalina that I'm building for Time test and Grand Touring. I used 71 Pontiac B body front brake system because they use a 12" rotor and the tall spindle assy gives me negative roll steering. I use a Police Nova quick ratio ( 2 1/4 lock to lock ) steering box and other GM out of the box parts to make this car handle. I also like to show my cars and I like to make them look as stock as possible. All of those "B" body cars use 12" rotors so that messes with the 14" wheel size unless the cars were police / taxi or NASCAR built as they use 15" wheels with a poverty cap. What I did was use a 15" wheel, a 15" beauty rim and spot welded the beauty rim to my 14" spinner wheel cover. Only if you were directed to it would you realize it just a little bit larger than stock. Obviously I don't use those wheels on the track, but for shows or a weekend spin those wheels are on the car.
If you didn't want to go the 12" route you might want to check F or X body cars from 1975-79 because they use a 11" rotor and a 14" rim. Spindle height would be the determining factor. I can tell you F/X spindles work great in GM "A" body cars- and give negative roll steering too!
Don

[D Yaros]

Now if Dave can give us a link to that forum regarding the conversion he mentioned I for one would like to read it. After thinking about it, I'd bet it was not done without messing up the steering geometry to one extent or another.

Jim

If this refers to me, and the msg I sent you & David L. via email, what I sent was a PM I received from a guy going by the name of rcdynamic88 on the Classic Oldsmobile Forum - ClassicOldsmobile.com - Powered by vBulletin

[joe_padavano]

I know this webb site is for stock cars so I'm jumping in just to help here. I have a 62 Pontiac Catalina that I'm building for Time test and Grand Touring. I used 71 Pontiac B body front brake system
Don

Don,

Aren't the 62 Catalinas rear steer (steering linkage behind the axle centerline)? If so, how did you use the front-steer 71-76 B-body spindles? The 62 Olds full size cars are definitely rear steer and cannot use these later spindles. Also, as you are probably aware, the later spindles use a different ball joint taper than the early spindles. This requires either remachining of the tapered holes in the spindles or adapting the later ball joints to the early control arms. The use of the taller 77-90 B-body spindles is common on the A-body cars, but in that case both are front steer. The A-body requires expensive custom upper control arms to get the suspension geometry back after installing the tall spindles. Of course, even with that, the difference in the location of the steering arm introduces bump steer with that swap.

[Jim_Edwards]

If this refers to me, and the msg I sent you & David L. via email, what I sent was a PM I received from a guy going by the name of rcdynamic88 on the Classic Oldsmobile Forum - ClassicOldsmobile.com - Powered by vBulletin

I was referring to the post you made in this thread two days ago. After going through several screens and a search from the link above I found nothing having to do with using the spindles from a '68-'69 on a '62 Starfire. Though having a rather extensive E-Mail exchange with David L., nothing within those exchanges implies any info from you on this given conversion reference.

Anyway, I've resigned myself to the fact there is NO conversion to disc brakes that allows the use of the factory OE 14" wheels without a lot of nearly half-ass clobbering of things together into some marginally safe brake system that could give a future owner maintenance fits without very specific documentation on the alteration.

[helfen]

Don,

Aren't the 62 Catalinas rear steer (steering linkage behind the axle centerline)? If so, how did you use the front-steer 71-76 B-body spindles? The 62 Olds full size cars are definitely rear steer and cannot use these later spindles. Also, as you are probably aware, the later spindles use a different ball joint taper than the early spindles. This requires either remachining of the tapered holes in the spindles or adapting the later ball joints to the early control arms. The use of the taller 77-90 B-body spindles is common on the A-body cars, but in that case both are front steer. The A-body requires expensive custom upper control arms to get the suspension geometry back after installing the tall spindles. Of course, even with that, the difference in the location of the steering arm introduces bump steer with that swap.

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Hi Joe, Yes you are correct as Pontiac's "B" body cars are (up til 65) rear steer vehicles too. That is one of the reasons I chose the 62 because all of the weight ( steering links and steering box ) is aft of the front wheels and the front of the engine is right even with the center of the spindle location ( not like on "A" bodies although 68-73 are better than earlier versions).
And yes the 71 Pontiac- Olds are front steer. All you do is switch the spindle link arm (the 71 is a two piece spindle assy) and put the left on the rt and the rt arm on the left and now you have a rear steer. Most machine shop suppliers have a tapered cutting tool to cut your angle for the ball joint. I think I paid around 40.00 for the tool. I have seen some ball joints go in without machining. I have also seen two ball joints with the same part # and one will go and the other has the other angle-but the tool clears this up in a few minutes.

Don

[joe_padavano]

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Hi Joe, Yes you are correct as Pontiac's "B" body cars are (up til 65) rear steer vehicles too. ...

Actually, up until 1970 are rear steer.

And yes the 71 Pontiac- Olds are front steer. All you do is switch the spindle link arm (the 71 is a two piece spindle assy) and put the left on the rt and the rt arm on the left and now you have a rear steer.

I must say that I'm confused. All the references I have show that the 71-76 B-body cars all use the same spindles and all are one-piece forged with the caliper bracket and steering arm integral with the spindle. The 1965-1970 B-body cars used spindles with bolt-on steering arms. Can you verify the year of the spindles you used? Are the caliper mounts part of the spindle or bolt-on?

[helfen]

Actually, up until 1970 are rear steer.



I must say that I'm confused. All the references I have show that the 71-76 B-body cars all use the same spindles and all are one-piece forged with the caliper bracket and steering arm integral with the spindle. The 1965-1970 B-body cars used spindles with bolt-on steering arms. Can you verify the year of the spindles you used? Are the caliper mounts part of the spindle or bolt-on?

Joe, my donor car was a 71 GrandVille. 1971 was the first model year for that model. Caliper mounts are part of the spindle. I know of other Pontiac people who have used the later style you mentioned and just switch the rt spindle with the left and possibly a longer brake line ( I'm not positive on that part though). The Ackerman is still good for both types. Clearancing is required for both types of spindles, but not much.

Don

[joe_padavano]

The Ackerman is still good for both types. Clearancing is required for both types of spindles, but not much.

Don

No, it's not actually. In fact, this is a scary thing to do. The "kingpin" axis is all wrong when you swap the spindles like that, and the steering arms end up in the wrong place. Bump steer is introduced. Again, if you have a set from a 1971 full size with integral caliper brackets and bolt on steering arms, I'd like to see photos. That's not a GM part that I've ever seen before.

[helfen]

Joe, My apologies here. My front disc are 70 Bonneville. It's been eight years since, and I thought it was from the GrandVille. The GrandVille gave me the brake lines and the proportioning valve, a 455 and a long tail T-400. I will have to try to find the old Smoke signals article that refers to using the 71 components.

Don

[joe_padavano]

Joe, My apologies here. My front disc are 70 Bonneville.

And unfortunately that brings us right back to the beginning. You still can't buy rotors for those spindles anymore. Better go easy on your brakes.

[helfen]

And unfortunately that brings us right back to the beginning. You still can't buy rotors for those spindles anymore. Better go easy on your brakes.

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Joe, I found the article in Smoke signals and there are actually two of them. The first one was the conversion I used from 68-70 "B" body, the second which I thought was from 71+ "B" body was 68-82 brake assys from Corvette and was bolted to a 61 Catalina.
As far as rotors for my car goes I have the ones from the donor car plus four sets (8) I bought from NAPA in 2005. By the time I use those rotors up I'll be too old to be doing that sort of thing anyway. There is no question in my mind that my cars will outlive me.

Don