Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
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PackardDiscuss Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?) in the DOMESTIC MAKES & MODELS forums; I recently had a starting problem with my '35 V12, and I could use some help.
Usually, when I press the starter button, it starts up fine. Recently, though, once ...
Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
I recently had a starting problem with my '35 V12, and I could use some help.
Usually, when I press the starter button, it starts up fine. Recently, though, once in a while when I would press the starter button, I would just give me a single click from near the firewall. It seemed to be an on/off thing, either it would just click or start just fine. The problem sudddenly became more common, and I figured it was an electric connection like a ground that was gradually loosening and needed tightening. So I went looking for a metal connection to tighten, and I noticed that the starter button housing connected to the dash itself was loose -- the housing had unscrewed counterclockwise about 150 degrees. So I tightened that up by rotating it clockwise from the back until it was tight again and the word "starter" on the button itself was facing upward.
That's when things started getting interesting, or, if you prefer, troubling. I had the car in what I thought was neutral, with the key out and on on the driver's seat. But when I tightened the starter button housing, the car suddenly started, even with the key not it. The car started to roll backwards a bit at that point: Apparently I had accidentally shifted slightly into reverse while underneath the dash, and while the parking brake was on, it was only on a little bit. So I jammed on the brake and pulled the parking brake as far on as I could go, to keep it from moving, which stopped the car and cut the ignition. But the car still seemed to want to start again, so I went to flip the switch on the battery cut off I have installed next to the battery in the rumble seat area: As I approached the switch, I saw a very small glow from it -- and when I looked closely I saw it had just started a tiny fire. So I grabbed my fire extinguisher and doused the switch for a second or two, which fortunately put out the (mini) fire.
A few weeks later, I replaced the melted battery switch -- and out of an abundance of caution I replaced the starter button, too. This time, no short circuit. But when I press the starter button, I still just get the click. The sound is coming from the starter motor, and I took a short video if you want to give it a listen:
Re: Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
Sounds like you have a solenoid problem, or perhaps a starter that needs to be rebuilt. Have you taken the cover off the solenoid? Be careful with it, the cover is thin pot metal. You can rebuild the original starter button. It isn't uncommon for those to fail. Do you by chance have a Startix on the car? - my 35 originally had one and they were an option in 35/6. Are you totally sure about the battery? No chance that when it shorted it discharged?
Re: Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
Dave, thanks for your thoughts. Yes, the engine was rebuilt just last year, and the starter was rebuilt about 4 years ago. I don't have startix; I'll double check the battery, too. I haven't taken the cover off the solenoid, but I'll do so ASAP. I might PM you for more advice, if that's okay.
Re: Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
Just by listening to your video, I wouldn't suspect battery. It sounds like a healthy snap from the solenoid. Although it's hard to tell by the video alone. If you find problems with the solenoid, I can rebuild yours. I have one in stock, but it's pricey. I know Dave already mentioned it, but it can't be said too much. Be Careful With That Solenoid Cover!!!! An easy check before you even remove the cover is to put a volt meter on the actual starter motor stud after the solenoid and see if you show power there when the key is turned/when you hear the relay close. If you show power, but no action from the starter then starter is the issue. Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns. I specialize in restoring these old units and do a lot of Owen Dyneto Packard units.
Jason
Advanced Electrical Rebuilders jason@aerrebuild.com www.aerrebuild.com
Re: Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
Thanks very much, Jason. I checked the battery again, and it's fully charged. One question is, how do I remove the solenoid cover? There's an outward screw, but when I removed it, the cover still wouldn't budge. Is there another screw that I'm just not seeing?
Re: Starting problem (with a short circuit to add to the mix?)
Orin,
Just to confirm what we talked about earlier today. I have attached a photo of a solenoid I have here. You can see the two screws sticking out on opposite sides from each other. These two hold the cap on. Also note, the two large copper terminals are the ones I was referring to. Jumper these two together and you will then be bypassing the solenoid and going directly to the starter motor. Good luck and feel free to call me with any further questions.
Jason
Advanced Electrical Rebuilders www.aerrebuild.com jason@aerrebuild.com
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