Items soon to be available for free download @ Packardinfo.com

[CaptainBristol]

Today I sent BigKev more than 200 pages of original 1940s and 50s Packard and third party documents. Kev has agreed to scan these and put them up on his web site: Packardinfo.com I have collected these documents over the past 9-10 months and hope to add to the collection in the future. My intent is to see everything published on the Net for free downloads.

I asked Kev to make high quality scans that will be very clear when downloaded. If need be, Kev has offered to correct the colors to facilitate viewing/reading. Per my request, the scans will have no watermarks and their use will not be restricted in any way.

Below is an inventory of what I sent Kev. I am hopeful he will be able to get all the documents posted within a week.

Once others see what Kev has done, perhaps those people who are holding back will also contribute. We don't know how much longer Kev will have the energy and time to process these documents, so I'd urge others to vote early and often!

All the best,

Mark in Alaska

Sent to Kevin on 18 April, 2006:

Service Technical Bulletins to dealers from 1949. Total: 31 sheets of paper. Originals numbered 1 through 31, with # 5 and #16 missing. There are two #4s: the original and the corrected copy. Numbers 19, 21, 25 and 26 are two-sided bulletins. #24 is 3 pages on two sheets of paper.

I also sent five Serviceman Training Booklets:

Front Suspension and Steering, published 9/48 16 pages, not including covers

Ignition System, published 4/47 28 pages, not including covers

Transmission and Overdrive, published 3/48 38 pages, not including covers

Clutch and Electromatic Clutch, published 7/48 32 pages, not including covers

Service Management and selling, published 1/50 25 pages, not including covers

Additionally, I sent 12 pages (on 6 sheets of paper) from a non-Packard Repair and Tune-Up Manual Illustrated Service Procedure and Specifications for Series 21, 22 & 23 PACKARDS

Finally, I sent 10 pages (on 5 sheets of paper) Repair and Tune-up Manuals for 1941 and 1942 Packards. These manuals were almost certainly published in the same volume as the one described above. They were originally spiral bound but are now 6-inch by 9-inch loose sheets.

By my count, Kevin will have about 205 pages to scan.

I want to thank Kevin for his great volunteer effort.

[Packin31]

I feel left out with my '31. Guess I need to sell her and buy a 1940 or later Packard. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Will there be anything info for owners that own a Packard that is older then 1940's. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[imported_Speedster]

Regrettably the only Good Information I've found pretaining to PreWar Packards is scribbled on the back of old phone books, sheets of faded paper stuck in old lamps, or locked away in Safes, only to be open maybe once a year to be cleaned by people wearing white gloves. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Of course, PreWar Packards are so simple and Uncomplicated, Everything you will ever Need to know can be fit on the back of an Old Phone book. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Not like those New-fangled contraptions with all their wires and dodads. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Packin31]

Quote:

to be cleaned by people wearing white gloves

LMSAO

Quote:

Of course, PreWar Packards are so simple and Uncomplicated, Everything you will ever Need to know can be fit on the back of an Old Phone book

So true. They are pretty simple to work on. I am finding that out now.

[Rattpac]

Thank You for contributing to the Preservation of The Packard Automobile. Your contribution shall Not go un-noticed! Thumbs Up! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[BigKev]

Dare I say it??? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> But the 1949 STB's and couple of the Service Booklets and Training manuals have been scanned and are now online. I still have to finish scanning the other Training Manuals. Because they are in booklet format, I have to scan every page manually, so they take about an hour each to do. The rest should be up by the end of the weekend.

[CaptainBristol]

Thanks much, Kev. You are doing a great job and providing a valuable service. The more information we have available the more the entire community will benefit.

I hope others who have their own stashes of Packard information will look at Kev's web site and, like me, will follow his lead in permitting your materials to be published on the Net. Kev's site is still very new and it will doubtless grow and evolve over time. I am pleased to be a part of that growth. I like it that Kev is willing to volunteer his site to disseminate of information about these great cars.

[BigKev]

Not a problem. I do what I can.

All the Service Training Manuals have been scanned and are now online for download. Mark I will have your originals back in the mail to you on Monday.

Thanks again for sending them down for scanning. I will put everything I have scanned on a CD for your future reference and include it with your return package.

[packards42]

Thanks to Ken and Team, some one has done a lot of work to scan those documents.

My scanners is way to slow.

Packard restoration
Washougal Wa 98671

Joe Block

[imported_PackardV8]

I registered with Packardinfo.com and received the email from bigkev@packardinfo with my userid (PackardV8) and a password. When i sign into the website it tells me Incorrect info or info not found.

[CaptainBristol]

Today I came home from a business trip to find waiting for me all the original Packard documents I sent to Kevin. He had returned them to me promptly and in fine condition. He did a great job scanning them and posting them on his site, here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mo...?storytopic=10

and here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mo...?storytopic=11


Kevin is on a business trip in Europe now, but when he gets back I plan to loan him the remainder of my collection of original Packard documents so he can scan them and post them on his site. I believe Kevin is a trustworthy altruist whose motives for sharing Packard-related documentation are beyond reproach.

Which brings me to the real point of this post. I am asking other participants in this forum to follow Kevin's lead and share their documents, as well. My car is a 1950, 23rd Series model and my document collection pertains almost exclusively to 1948-50 Packards. I have very few documents that relate to other years and I have no plans to collect them. Therefore it is up to you other members to follow suit and share your info.

I have researched copyright law and see that, as of 2006, all copyrights have expired on anything published before 1950, which is 56 years ago. The law says copyrights on any materials published before 1978 have a maximum duration of 56 years. The law actually specifies that a copyright expires in 28 years unless the owner renews it, in which case the copyright is extended for another 28 years. My guess is it's highly unlikely any publisher of Packard-related materials bothered to renew any copyrights (if they ever had a copyright at all) after the company went under.

You can check out copyright law courtesy of the U.S. Copyright Office, here:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.html

Regarding my documents Kevin posted on his site, the copyright question is moot. That's because nowhere on any documents is there any indication Packard (or anyone else) ever copyrighted them.

So there you have it, gentlemen. Anyone else willing to step up to the plate and contribute his documents to Kevin's site?

All the best,

Mark in Alaska

[Clipper47]

I have a few manuals pertaining to the 1947 Clipper which I would gladly contribute.

[Randy Berger]

Brian, you can copyright anything you own, notes scribbled on a brown paper bag, an old family photo that you own, an original drawing or plan, an article you write whether published or not. I note the PAC website copyrights all the photos you send them as though they now own them. I wonder if they accept photos that you already copyright? I submit articles for publication in my other hobby and I always copyright them before I send them in. Otherwise the publication can © it and not allow you to publish it elsewhere. Jut make the notation © and date and the deed is done.

[Randy Berger]

Brian,
the PAC website, unlike the club's printed publications, never credits the source of the photos.
I think that might be at the request of the owners - not sure about that.
I know I give pictures to http://hometown.aol.com/ivesboy/index.html
and always request that my name not be mentioned, so no one except the webmaster (a good friend of mine) knows the owners of the various items - security by ignorance. He never mentions any owners name, not just mine.

[CaptainBristol]

Thanks to Dave Kenney, aka Clipper47, for his offer to provide 1947 materials to PackardInfo.com. I believe Dave's gesture exemplifies the collaborative, free sharing of information the Internet has made possible. You're a good man!

All the best,

Mark in Alaska

Mark: I am getting a little tired of you doing something in a back handed way,without going after PAC. I think that you keep refering to people like me, who won't share or with hold Pakcard information that they might have. Because I am not willing to make my complete set of STB's free doesn't mean that I am with holding information, it only means that I am willing to share for a reasonable price, to recoup some of my costs for obtaining such information, and gives me extra moeny to expand my car library. I visited the PAC web site today and I reviewed what information PAC will provide through reprints, they all seems to have a cost and shipping to obtain the information that they have.
The question I have to ask is plain and simple is PAC also guilty of with holding information, because they sell it for a price, just like I do.

I am wiiling to make some of the Packard information I have free to the public, that I will allow to be posted on the PackardInfo web site. What I am willing to donate is a copy of the Packard Service Counslers that I have. What I will donate is Service Conselors, concernig the Packard ultramatic transmision from 1951 through 1954. However there is one catch to this offer. I want you to make an effort to contact the people at PAC and ask them what they wouldbe willing to donate for free to the PackardInfo web site, and then publically tell me and the others in this forum what there answer is. I think that I can guess what their answer will be. You do this and you have my word I will keep my end of the offer, that I have just made.

To the New Packard V8 Club, I also extend you an offer with no strings attached. I also have Service Conselors concerning the 55 & 56 Packard Ultramatic, these I will provide to you free of charge to put on your web site.
If the people running the PACKARD V8 CLUB are interested please contact me.

Joel ie Packard1: You got on my case about me not wanting to share Packard information that I have. You made some vauge offer about Packard STB's if a person requested them from you. You have now seen my offer to these two web sites, what are you willing to donate free to these to websites so they can publically post the information that you might donate.

John F. Shireman

[cooter9]

Hey John I have an idea, just keep your info and be happy with it. All the best.

[CaptainBristol]

Thanks so much for the suggestion and offer of materials to post on Kev's website.

Today I sent the following email to the PAC and to six individual members of the leadership. I will keep you posted on the responses:

Subject: PAC Documentation request--Please post Service Counselors, Owners Manuals, and Service Guides on web site

Hello, PAC,

Thanks much for offering a great Packard-related website. I have found it to be a valuable source of Packard-related information. I see PAC offers a number documents for sale while other documents are available for free download.

I have also discovered there are documents available for free download on other websites. Those sites allow users to download, for free, copies of some documents you sell as reprints. Other documents available at those sites are unavailable at yours. The sites I am referring to are the Packard Library:

http://www.thepackardlibrary.org/index.htm

and at PackardInfo.com:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/news/

Regarding the Packard reprints you offer for sale, many of them are more than 100 pages in length, such as shop manuals and parts books. They would be a lot of hassle to scan and post on your site. Also, common sense tells you that it is simply easier to buy a bound copy of a large volume of than it is to download it and and print it out. However, I see you offer for sale reprints of about a dozen Service Counselors and Service Guides. Those documents are relatively short in length. Therefore they can be scanned and uploaded to a website. Additionally, you have a couple-dozen Owners Manuals that can be scanned and posted, as well.

It appears that the trend at the Packard Library and PackardInfo.com is to scan and post as much Packard-related documentation as possible. In short, the impetus to post as much Packard-related information for free on the Net is gathering steam.

Therefore, I have two requests for you:

1. Please scan and post on your site the Owners Manuals, Service Counselors and Service Guides.
2. If this is not possible, please offer expressed or implied permission for others who buy those reprints to scan and post them on their sites.

In my humble opinion, the free postings I am requesting will have a small effect on sales while re-confirming the PAC website is the first place to go to look for Packard-related information.

All the best,

Mark in Alaska

[Randy Berger]

I doubt that your request will meet with any success, not that individuals wouldn't donate the material. The club decided to make that one of their money-raising projects. These are NOT to benefit an individual but the club as a whole. Those monies support other club endeavors that you get with your membership. I pay approximately the same dues to PAC as I do to a club in another hobby. Pac has approx 5,000 members. The other club has 37,000 members. PAC puts out a much better Quarterly and monthly news bulletin as compared to the other club. You get a pretty good bang for the buck. Once the club has committed to reprinting something, they have to bear the printing costs up front. Their money is already tied up - members have purchased the reprints. Now you want them to post the info for nothing. How do you think the members who paid will feel about that? The owners manuals and other documents can be posted on the PackardV8 website as long as they are not the copies that PAC or PI paid to reprint. I have a 1956 accessory booklet I will be glad to scan and post on that site.

[Clipper47]

Randy, I agree with what you wrote. I don't see PAC volunteering publications which are sold as fund raiswers. The material which I will offer to the website are originals and not material which I purchased as reprints from PAC or anyone else. I have been a member of PAC for 15 years and have been very pleased with the club.

[BigKev]

You may want to try to re-register. It should just register you automatically. If you are still having trouble let me know and I will do what I can from this side of the pond.

Cheers

[BigKev]

Thanks to John and Dave for there offers. I appreciate it. Hopefully when I get back from Europe, I can make arrangements with you guys to get that information in one format or another for posting. For anyone wishing for me to scan the documents for them I will be happy to do it, and also provide you back a CD with the all of the website's downloadable content with your originals as a thank you.

There are a set of 1951 Original STB's on Ebay I am hopefull to purchase (if the price doesnt go insane) and if so I will scan them and get those online. Thanks to Gary for the heads-up on that. If I get outbid, maybe I will be able to track down the buyer and arrange to get a copy for online posting. Keep your fingers crossed.

Cherrio from London!

TO ALL: In Randy Berger's reply he stated something, that I tried telling some of you folks awhile back, when this whole thing started. THE REASON THAT IWILL NOT MAKE THE STB'S FREE IS BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE IN THE PAST WHO HAVE PURCHASED THEM FROM ME, just as I had stated in the notice that I posted about the STB's. Some how along the line that was overlloked by a lot of people saying that I should make them free to the public.

The real sticking point in this matter with me is when a vendor Joel ie Packard1 comes into the fray, makes false statements about about me, and then proceeds to start telling me what to do with the information that I have.
Oh by the way Joel I stepped up to the plate, but you have failed to do so. WHY.

The one thing that you all don't realize about PAC that it is being run by some people who shall we say, have low ethics standards.

John F. Shireman

[CaptainBristol]

I very much appreciate your willingness to contribute materials to BigKev's PackardInfo.com website. Generous sharing of information is what attracted me to this group in the first place, and I continue to be impressed with the contributions of individuals whose goal is to advance and preserve the community of Packard owners.

I do hope the PAC will also be willing to share some of their information, but if they are not yet ready--so be it. I viewed my email to them as an invitation to a "sharing party." If they accept, it will be wonderful. If they send their regrets, we will miss them. Nonetheless, the party will go on.

I respect John & Randy. Their opinions about the fairness factor: i.e. to people who bought information which later is offered for free are certainly valid. But with all due respect, I see things differently.

This evening I visited my local hardware store to take advantage of a clearance sale. The store was selling off a line of tools at absurdly low prices. The prices were significantly lower than I paid for identical tools in 2002. Was I angry with the store for lowering its prices? No. Truth is, I felt I got good value from the tools over the past four years. I bought several duplicates tonight and felt I got a great value there, as well. I was grateful the store made the values available.


Hanging here in my office is a framed print of a famous Renaissance painting. I bought the print years ago for $200. (No....there are no naked nymphs in the print!) I see that I can now download an image of that painting for free. Does this upset me? Not at all. I viewed the painting as a value when I bought it. It was significantly cheaper than buying the original. What I liked was the content and the format. Even if I downloaded an image for free it would not be as pleasing as the art print, nor would it be ready to hang on my wall.

I see the free distribution of electronic copies of original Packard documents in the same light. They are not the same as the originals and the format is different. The bottom line, in my humble opinion, is that wider dissemination of the information is good for every Packard owner, present and future.

This will be my final post on the topic as I have no wish to derail the forum with this issue. My primary concern remains the preservation and enjoyment of Packard cars (mine in particular!) and that is what brings me here.

Once again I want to thank you for your generous offers. I think I speak for many here who appreciate your willingness to share.

All the best,

Mark in Alaska

[imported_Speedster]

I checked and couldn't find anything that is Not Copywrited, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> that I would like to see on the website, Sorry. I'll keep looking tho.