A great day for PA.

nearchoclatetown · July 12th, 2008

I hope all the Pa. guys noticed the lovely Kathleen resigned as head of DEP yesterday. She has cost Pa. tons of $$. Good ridence!! A resignation usually means the end of a political career, so that's good too.

Dave@Moon · July 12th, 2008

Originally Posted By: nearchoclatetown

I hope all the Pa. guys noticed the lovely Kathleen resigned as head of DEP yesterday. She has cost Pa. tons of $$. Good ridence!! A resignation usually means the end of a political career, so that's good too.

Resigning from the DEP is hardly a death sentence. I worked under three Secretaries at the DEP. One resigned for health resons and passed away immediately afterward. The other two went on to immediately be named heads of 2 Chamber of Commerces (state & Philadelphia), both at a very high pay raise. Of course those two worked under administrations with a very different idea of environmental regulation from the norm. (I used to keep technically illegal duplicate files on all my sites, because negative reports tended to "disappear" in Harrisburg in those days. [img]<>/mad.gif[/img] When you hear "compliance-based regiment" in the running of a state agency, that's what it means.)

Your tax dollars not at work.

BTW, she seems to have been an actually effective administrator. In PA that must have been a tough thing to get used to.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/pa-gove...thleen-mcginty/

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/24443994.html

She'll do fine.

nearchoclatetown · July 13th, 2008

Dave, I didn't think you would understand. What your articles didn't tell you was how she stopped construction on the most dangerous stretch of hiway PA. owns because runoff from stone used on the embankements MIGHT kill a fish. No real facts just MIGHT. The stone was mined in the area it was used. The construction stopped and the stone was covered with plastic and sandbags. The plastic poses a greater risk of killing fish then the stone. She has been studying the "problem" for several years with no outcome. Meanwhile the taxpayer pays the contractor for the delay. She's also brought Pa. the most idiotic set of car immisions laws known to man. They test the cars that test themselves, LOOK at the cars that don't. BTW, if you were really an evironmentalist, like you claim on this forum, why would you knowingly keep 2 sets of records? I would not want a job like that!!

Dave@Moon · July 13th, 2008

Quote:

BTW, if you were really an evironmentalist, like you claim on this forum, why would you knowingly keep 2 sets of records? I would not want a job like that!!

I did a great deal of good in those years, stopped more pollution than I ever could have in any other life choice, worked outdoors in a position of authority and responsibility at a comparitively young age, and did it all working with people who shared a (reasonable) attitude towards environmental quality vs. human commerce, most of whom would've done it for nothing like me. I'd do it again tomorrow.

The second set of records were mainly to secure myself from question by the EPA, who are about as incorruptable as the FBI. If you ever want to know why those with deep pockets support political causes that push for local government authority in the maximum number of situations, just remember how much easier it is to bribe the mayor than the Prseident. It's good to work for the President instead of the mayor, believe me!

As for rock runnoff killing "a fish", it's obvious that the whole story isn't there in your post. If I were to build an embankment along a Wayne Co. brook trout stream out of acidic coal mine gob I'd have about half the pickup trucks in PA looking for me with shotguns after a while. That's an extreme, but there are almost certainly complications to this story that you either don't know or are leaving out. It's very easy to see why this would be important.

BTW, stream impacts are handled by the Bureau of Dams and Waterways. Their regs are largely based on Federal requirements, especially when it comes to direct impacts like this one. Rarely is there anything like discretion in evaluating one of these plans. It sounds like PENNDOT (again) signed a contract where someone is being paid until the program is approved who is also responsible for the approval. Gee, what could go wrong? [img]<>/smirk.gif[/img]

As for the emissions program, what ever did make sense about that? PA is run by lobbyists, pure and simple. If someone in private enterprise can charge you more for something that the government should be doing, it'll happen in PA first. The whole inspection program should've been scrapped years ago. Moving to Ohio underscores that in the extreme!

(When I worked for the PA-DER, every office/building in the Dept. was rented. Did you know that landlords make great campaign contributors? My converted warehouse office in Pittsburgh (with the used cubicles from a closed Westinghouse division) was rented at a higher rate per square foot than any other office space in the city (mahogany walls or not). I NEVER met one person from another environmmental agency who worked in a rented office, reasonable rates or no. Not from any other state, not from the EPA, not even from any county agency.)

[img]<>/wink.gif[/img] [img]<>/wink.gif[/img] (Hint--this means "wink-wink") But for God's sake, don't vote for anybody but the incumbant that speaks to your needs and who belongs to the only good political party on earth (whichever, as long as it's your's). Only he/she understands. It's everybody else in the state that can't see past the bull of their guy. [img]<>/crazy.gif[/img] [img]<>/crazy.gif[/img] [img]<>/crazy.gif[/img]

Pennsylvania, Land of Incumbancy

(Did I mention I used to work for those clowns?)

Bhigdog · July 15th, 2008

I think you are refering to the new hiway near State College. If I remember correctly the fill and/or the hiway cut was loaded with iron pyrite. Pyrites are notorious for forming sulphuric acid and is the main cause of acid mine drainage and the death of streams and rivers.
I've been swimming in the West branch of the Susquehanna for about 30 years now. We camp and hang glide near Renovo, PA. 30 years ago the river ran clear and looked great but it was dead. Nothing lived in it. After a swim your skin would be all flakey and while you were in the river every body orfice would burn from the acidity.
Over the last 4th of july weekend some in our group were catching (and releasing) nice size small mouth bass and at night you can hear frogs drumming. Flocks of geese and ducks were paddling about and reeds are growing again in the shallows.
The biggest thrill though was when I flew wing tip to wing tip at 3000 feet above the river with a mature bald eagle. They have returned to feed on the river fish.
I'm no tree hugger but I feel that all the above is beyond price. And if it takes holding up a bit of construction or spending some money to keep our priceless rivers clean it's OK with me........Bob

nearchoclatetown · July 15th, 2008

Bhigdog, you could be right, I don't know. But wouldn't ALL of that have been known BEFORE the contract was let out? The engineers that approved where the stone pit was established would have been aware of this. By this time the stone in question could have been removed and replaced with other stone instead of holding up the project. Are you also aware she also wants to force EVERY township/municpailty to implament septic inspections? ALL tanks would have to be pumped every 3-5 years and inspected by the locals, and replaced if they don't pass inspection. Of course the state would pay half of the inspection fee. But the homeowner gets to really pay the whole bill! The 18th will be a good day!

Bhigdog · July 15th, 2008

Quote:

Are you also aware she also wants to force EVERY township/municpailty to implament septic inspections

Actually I am aware of that proposal because I'm on my township's planning commission. I do beleive the 3-5 year pumping plan is a bit much. On the other hand we have a village in our township that has about 30 homes with failed septic systems that are draining raw sewage directly into the Little Schuylkill Creek. That's not speculation it's a documented fact. Where the line is drawn between responsible regulation and environmentalism run amok is a thorny issue. I don't claim to have all the answers.....Bob

Dave@Moon · July 16th, 2008

Pennsylvania, especially northeast PA, was decades behind most of the country in basic septic care when I was with the DER. I lived for a year and half in Packerton in the late 1980s, a small village between Jim Thorpe and Lehighton. At that time virtually none of the small cities of Carbon County had any sewage treatment whatsoever, and one had only recently bothered to install below ground sewage lines.

20 miles downstream was the Schaefer Brewery, by then brewing Strohs beer.

A non-functioning septic system is no better, and I can tell you from personal experience (sewage sludge disposal was part of my purview with the DER prior to moving to Pittsburgh) that the people who don't maintain their systems are the ones who will object the loudest to having that discovered by any means. Meanwhile your tomato garden is giving you food poisoning because it's getting runoff from the neighbor's yard.

Quote:

Where the line is drawn between responsible regulation and environmentalism run amok is a thorny issue. I don't claim to have all the answers.....

There won't be one if ensuring simple responsibility to one's fellow man falls under the "run amok" heading. People are simply not as responsible as others imagine them to be. Therefore it becomes a cost/benefit analysis. You can absolutely bet that this proposal was based on one. Pragmatism does still exist.

Knee-jerk reactions against things like this don't consider such things. It's a belief system in this country that all new things are designed to take advantage of people, especially when the government is involved. Sometimes it's the old things that have been doing that all along.

Bhigdog · July 16th, 2008

Quote:

I lived for a year and half in Packerton in the late 1980s, a small village between Jim Thorpe and Lehighton. At that time virtually none of the small cities of Carbon County had any sewage treatment whatsoever

All the "cities" of Carbon county are small. Both Lehighton and Jim Thorpe have had sewerage treatment plants for about 50 years........Bob

Dave@Moon · July 16th, 2008

If you know anything about sewage treatment, there are three levels: Primary, secondary, and tertiary. Tertiary removes specific materials/contaminants that are a problem specific to the water system in question, usually through media filtration (which is very expensive). Secondary is nutrient removal (usually through large aeration tanks and/or media tanks, both of which encourage microbial breakdown). Primary is filtering out the chunks by settlement only, hopefully (but not always) both the floaters and the sinkers.

When I lived there nobody had better than primary treatment, including Lehighton and Jim Thorpe, and most had none whatsoever. Frankly I make little distinction between primary treatment and none whatsoever.

After I moved there I stopped drinking Stroh's. Nobody in my office would either. Inspecting those places was our job.