Information wanted.

[RC45]

I have just purchased a Stutz in Sweden and I would like to receive some information about it. It's a 1921 series K 5 passenger touring in a very good condition and as far I can judge complete. The framenumber is KDH 10520 and the enginenumber is K 10536. According to the seller he has owned the car since 1989 (and hardly used it) and before that it was more than 50 yrs with an American collector (name unknown). Is there any place on the car, besides the dashplate, where I can find the framenumber ? Does anyone knows anything about this car ? Are there any books/manual/parts cataloq available ? Any information is more than welcome.

[Ivan Saxton]

There is a number stamped on top of the cast crossmember where the torque tube yoke is attached..
The issue you are likely to encounter is the need to replace the diecast cam follower bodies with new ones machined from bronze or cast iron castings.

[RC45]

There is a number stamped on top of the cast crossmember where the torque tube yoke is attached..
The issue you are likely to encounter is the need to replace the diecast cam follower bodies with new ones machined from bronze or cast iron castings.

Dear Ivan Saxton,

Thanks for this information, I appreciate this very much. Is there any way that I can see if this is already done without dismantle anything ? What problems will I get when not replacing the cam followers ?
If I may you ask some other questions: what oil do I have to use for the engine/gearbox/differential ? How can I get some technical information about the engine (valveclearance, ignition, etc.)? This may be some simple questions for you, but over here in the Netherlands it's nearly impossible to find any information regarding Stutz.

Thanks for your help,
Henk Noteboom

[jrbartlett]

A friend here in Houston has a nearly identical car, except his engine has the non-detachable head. The lifter bodies were cast from pot metal that expands and breaks over the years. When that happens, the lifter kicks out to the side, causing a knock and possibly damaging the camshaft and other parts unless you stop the engine. There is a Stutz expert named Paul Freehill who lives in Fort Wayne, Indiana, who can provide technical advice and probably parts. Also, you should join the Stutz Club immediately.

If no one else can provide you with literature on your car, I can contact my friend and copy whatever he has and send it to you -- he does not have a computer. I think I saw photos of your car on the Internet a year or two ago. These are fun cars to drive, but they not easy to drive. The steering and clutch are very heavy. Also, that four-cylinder engine really sounds impressive when the exhaust cutout is open.

[Ivan Saxton]

No-one knew much about zinc-base diecast metal when Stutz made those cam followers of it. They could be finished quickly and economically from castings with good detail, and ran well with lubrication. What was not known then was the effect of very small quantities of cadmium or lead in the mixture. I have never seen a cam follower body break in service, nor the resulting damage. I can assure you that the material grows to eliminate all working clearance, and they become so over-tight in the crankcase that they are likely to break when you remove them. If one of these engines siezes and will not turn over when it is not used for a while, this is most probable cause. I do not know when Stutz started making them of this, but Fred Edwards made the first set of cast iron ones for Ian Smith's 1918 Bearcat. The oil pump bodies of the five litre straight 8 Auburns were the same stuff so you have to make your own of clean material, and I recollect Morris Burrows telling me that the L-head Mercers used the same; though that of my 1918 had one of sand-cast aluminium which was probably a replacement.
You will have to lift the floorboard to check that number on the crossmember if you need to.
The Stutz rear end that is most fussy for lubricant is the Timken worm drive of the later 8 cylinders (and similar, smaller Blackhawk cars with ohc six cylinder or side vale Continental eight). The bronze worm wheel will not tolerate suphur -bearing oil. The gear oil originally used for the transaxle of the T-head fours is rather high viscosity, which probably loses a lot of performance. Lighter grades will lubricate just as well, if you use seals all round that will keep it in; and the old felt sealsdo not. One man I know here has a ww2 Stuart tankwhich runs with automatic transmission fluid in the transmission and final drives, and I can assure you that tank has much more performance than the ones we used originally. When I put mine together it will have the best seals I can get.
You need to make sure that the interlock of the gear change at the lever and the gate absolutely stops the change rods it the neutral position. What I got had fragments of the original transaxle housing, and sheared woodruff keys, (double, at 90 degrees) on the gearbox layshaft. If two gears become engaged at once on the move, it will wreck most of the transmission. I bought one of Paul Freehill's first batch of new transmission housings. That interlock is fine, but it must be perfect.
I am not sure how Paul Freehill is now. You probably need to check with Bill Greer or Fred Hoch. Paul has done a lot over some decades to help people put a lot of Stutz cars back on the road.

[RC45]

No-one knew much about zinc-base diecast metal when Stutz made those cam followers of it. They could be finished quickly and economically from castings with good detail, and ran well with lubrication. What was not known then was the effect of very small quantities of cadmium or lead in the mixture. I have never seen a cam follower body break in service, nor the resulting damage. I can assure you that the material grows to eliminate all working clearance, and they become so over-tight in the crankcase that they are likely to break when you remove them. If one of these engines siezes and will not turn over when it is not used for a while, this is most probable cause. I do not know when Stutz started making them of this, but Fred Edwards made the first set of cast iron ones for Ian Smith's 1918 Bearcat. The oil pump bodies of the five litre straight 8 Auburns were the same stuff so you have to make your own of clean material, and I recollect Morris Burrows telling me that the L-head Mercers used the same; though that of my 1918 had one of sand-cast aluminium which was probably a replacement.
You will have to lift the floorboard to check that number on the crossmember if you need to.
The Stutz rear end that is most fussy for lubricant is the Timken worm drive of the later 8 cylinders (and similar, smaller Blackhawk cars with ohc six cylinder or side vale Continental eight). The bronze worm wheel will not tolerate suphur -bearing oil. The gear oil originally used for the transaxle of the T-head fours is rather high viscosity, which probably loses a lot of performance. Lighter grades will lubricate just as well, if you use seals all round that will keep it in; and the old felt sealsdo not. One man I know here has a ww2 Stuart tankwhich runs with automatic transmission fluid in the transmission and final drives, and I can assure you that tank has much more performance than the ones we used originally. When I put mine together it will have the best seals I can get.
You need to make sure that the interlock of the gear change at the lever and the gate absolutely stops the change rods it the neutral position. What I got had fragments of the original transaxle housing, and sheared woodruff keys, (double, at 90 degrees) on the gearbox layshaft. If two gears become engaged at once on the move, it will wreck most of the transmission. I bought one of Paul Freehill's first batch of new transmission housings. That interlock is fine, but it must be perfect.
I am not sure how Paul Freehill is now. You probably need to check with Bill Greer or Fred Hoch. Paul has done a lot over some decades to help people put a lot of Stutz cars back on the road.

Thanks a lot for this info.

Rgds,
Henk