[Dave Fields]

Some members have mentioned the lack of earlier Classic cars on tours and events. If you have an early car - we might say 1935 or earlier, although that date is arbitrary - what is preventing you from driving it or taking it to CCCA events? What would entice you to use it or show it at CCCA events?fficeffice" />>>

[Twunk Rack]

TOURS FOR PRE WAR CLASSICS ?

The problem is a technical one. The big-engined "classics" were designed for roads that no longer exist ( except to get to my house in the mountains of northern Arizona!). That means they do the job they were designed to do, superbly. With brakes that are powerful and effective at the 35-55 mph cruising speeds that were POSSIBLE if you were really willing to whip those cars around. That means rear axle ratios of above 4 to one.

With the gear ratios of todays cars, a modern car's motor is not working anywhere NEAR as hard, at 100 mph, as a pre-war car is, at 50 mph.

That's the simple technical fact of what we mean when we discuss longer strokes, higher piston speeds, and crank bearings not capable of handling the higher road speeds of today.

Driving on the freeways of major cities ( if you are not in a rush-hour stop & go situation, just waiting to get rear-ended...!) we find cruising speeds of 75-85 mph.

Sure, some of the biggest-engined classics (when you re-gear their differentials), can do that comfortably). But their brakes and suspension systems simply cannot match what 70-80 years of technical development have given todays modern cars.

Bottom line - we simply cannot go out on tours safely with these monsters, the way we did in the 1950's and 1960's.

I dont know the answer to Dave's VERY IMPORTANT question.

I suspect I am one of the faster (o.k. more insane) drivers of big-engined pre-war classics. I can tell you that, recently, when another fast Packard V-12 driver and myself were headed north on the Harbor Freeway (So. Calif) from a CCCA event in Long Beach, and we were in the RIGHT hand lane, doing 70-75 mph, and a GARBAGE TRUCK passed us like we were standing still, I concluded we are in a whole new era with some serious questions to ask ourselves !

[Buicksplus]

I think the older cars are capable enough for the types of roads I have seen on most tours I've driven. We drive a 1927 non-classic that's slower than most early classics, yet we enjoy taking it on tour and can manage the traffic OK -- as long as the tours stay in rural areas.

Unfortunately, the some of the 80 year old folks find their early, big classics a bit too much to handle. It takes a lot of hand and foot strength to operate most of these monsters. If the owners don't find a younger relative or friend to help them out, they are choosing to leave those big rigs at home. Or get a Cad 62 that's much easier to handle.

Reliability is another factor too, the older people worry about sitting on the side of the road waiting for a trouble trailer.

The older big classics are also getting so valuable that many are lost to retirement in barns, museums and the concours circuit. Too bad, I really enjoy seeing them on the road.

[Mark Huston]

As a member of the CCCA I have only taken my Classic on one event in over 10 years of membership. The reason? Primarily it is because of the distance to the events from my house. I live in Northern California and most of the CCCA events in this part of the country are held in the greater San Francisco Bay Area which on a good day is a minimum of a 2 hour drive in bad traffic from my house. I do not have a tow vehicle and trailer. When you add up the cost of gas at 10 mpg, travel time, plus the cost of the event, it gets very expensive to attend the meets. When I drive my car it is usually around the area in which I live. It is a lot less stressful then negotiating bay area traffic for several hours.

[Owen_Dyneto]

what is preventing you from driving it or taking it to CCCA events? What would entice you to use it or show it at CCCA events

Can't speak for CCCA tours, I'm a long-time member but other than several Grand Classics that I've attended in a pre-1935 Classic, I've not been on one of their tours. I think important determining factors to participation by the older Classics include venue and distances from home. The Packard Club's Henry Joy IV tour this September past in the lower Adirondack region of New York drew about 60 cars, half of which were prewar and at least 8 of which were pre-1935 including 4 pre-1930. One attraction to participating in the older cars was an excellent secondary highway system that was agreeable to their limitations.

[Twunk Rack]

that's the problem - where can we find secondary highways where people arent tearing around at 80+ mph !

Take, for example, a CCCA tour up to the Ojai Valley Country Club ( So. Calif. before the freeway era) in 1957. In those days, many used cars on the roads of that era had trouble keeping up with us !

Face it - folks - we are becoming as obsolete as our vehicles.

I told a story in another post I will repeat here, to underscore my confusion over what we should do about this.

Let's go back to 1956 for example, to illustrate the problem. A great "three day joint meet" between Classic Car Club Of America, So. Calif. Region, and Horseless Carriage Club Of America. In Palm Springs, Calif.

On my way back to my motel, I go tearing out of the place where we had dinner, down Palm Canyon Drive, the V-12 doing what it does so well - accellerating smoothly, silently, and QUICKLY. Out of nowhere I almost rear- end a "brass" era car that pulled out of another parking lot further down the street. Couldn't see those weak tail lights. Locked the brakes up, and just barely avoided creaming him.

I rolled down my window and screamed at the guy..." ARE YOU NUTS.. ? WHAT IN HELL WERE YOU THINKING OF, GOING OUT ON A PUBLIC HIGHWAY IN A FORTY YEAR OLD CAR...." !

[Restorer32]

Yet the HCCA has several successful tours every year...go figure.

[alsancle]

The CCCA Caravans are very very pricey. I think the total cost is the biggest prohibitive factor in raising attendance.

[Dave Fields]

Would there be more interest if lower price events are held? Would people participate if a national tour had 2 host hotels, or a host hotel, and one ore more budget options available? I understand that some of the extra expence on a Caravan are the hotels that cost upwards to $200 a night?

This is a real question. Our chapter is putting on the 2011 Caravan in nothern New Mexico. We are a long way from most folks, but what could we do to facilitate participation?

[Dave Fields]

My question on tours for earlier cars isn't just about speed, but also distances traveled in a day. Are Caravan daily events too long for some cars?