[Twunk Rack]

Northern New Mexico CCCA tour ?

Go for it, Dave - sounds like fun - and count me in !

[Owen_Dyneto]

Dave, very good point and it would be important to me. I drive a 34 Packard Eight closed car, extremely well-maintained but essentially an original and unmolested original car, and I'm approaching 70 years old. I find about 125 miles per day to be a comfortable amount of secondary highway driving, and wouldn't mind doing a bit more, but not if it was a steady diet of 150 or more, day after day. And I avoid all but the shortest stretches on Interstates.

[Twunk Rack]

yeah, me too..Dave - sounds great. ( I drive a closed '38 Packard Twelve - really dont like to drive more than 600 miles a day - anything over a steady 80-85 mph and I start worrying about those tires......! ) ( I don't mind the Interstates 'cept for those damn modern cars getting in my way....wish they'd stay the !&$(##$@{ in the slow lane where they belong...)

[Chuck Conrad]

Originally Posted by Dave Fields

My question on tours for earlier cars isn't just about speed, but also distances traveled in a day. Are Caravan daily events too long for some cars?

I was on a Glidden Tour in your area about 15 years ago. We had a wonderful time. That said, I'm finding that I like driving (any vehicle) less and less. For years, I drove long distances to make a living. 100,000 per year wasn't unusual. That was not fun.

Now I notice that I have a three-year-old car with 80,000 miles on it. That is still a lot of driving. The idea of spending a few thousand dollars and a couple of weeks out of my busy schedule to do more driving in a car that is less comfortable than my daily driver, just isn't very appealing.

I know that is not the thought of avid CARavaners, but they are a small percentage of our members. The "regulars" seem to number about 200-300 or so. The rest try it out of curiosity, but many don’t seem to return - at least not on a regular basis. I can speculate that there are several reasons for that, but the bottom line is CARavaning seems to be aimed at a minority of our membership.

That said, I think it is a great activity, and one of the things the Club does really well I've had a lot of fun on every Caravan I've attended, but making time to do them has been a very real challenge. For the average guy who gets two or three weeks of vacation every year, taking 10-14 days for his (or her) old car habit may not be that easy to do.

Back to your original question, I find that 100 - 125 miles per day is about all I think of as "fun." Past that, it becomes "work." I know that not everyone will agree with me, but the older I get, the less appealing the idea of driving all day is. I think it is interesting that the Michigan Region is hosting a "BUSavan,” where all you have to do is show up at a nice hotel, and enjoy the events. They will take you there . No car is required. I'm seriously thinking of going.

[Mark Huston]

Dave,
I have to concur with some of the opinions expressed here regarding the expense associated with many of the Caravans. In the past I have looked into attending some of the west coast Caravans only to get sticker shock from the price of these tours. I agree with Chuck that a 14 day tour is excess. A five day tour is more reasonable with no more than about 100 miles a day. I would rather drive less and stop and see more, than just drive all day for the sake of driving. Recently I received a survey from the CCCA and one of the questions pertained to how to attract younger members. I expressed my opinion that if the CCCA wants to attract younger members they might want to consider scaling back on some of their expensive activities. After all, young people starting out in life (or, at least with grade school age children) usually do not have very much disposable income to spend on expensive 10-14 day tours. At least I did not when my wife and I were raising our children.

The other club I belong to is the Antique Studebaker Club. We have zone meets where we stay at one hotel for 3-4 days (which includes a weekend) with daily tours of about 40-60 miles each day that includes stops at interesting sites. Our events are fun and affordable. The current Caravan “template” has been used for a long time. I find it refreshing that Chuck mentioned a “BUSavan” is being planed which means that someone is thinking outside of the box and is willing to try something different. Maybe it is time to start looking at how other clubs conduct their tours and try something new instead of repeating the same old Caravan formula.

[Twunk Rack]

sounds to me like some of you boys need to get rid of your present classics, and get ones that are fun to drive ( or maybe the one you have isn't fixed up properly... ).

I agree that some of the EARLY brass era cars can be a bit problamatical, but by the time you get into the big-engined REAL classics of the mid 1920's - they are all FUN to drive.

[Twunk Rack]

As a follow-up to my post of earlier this morning (classic cars CAN be fun to drive), I am going to discuss one of my pet peeves - how the classic car hobby has evolved down thru the years.

In the early years of the Classic Car Club Of America, we wanted only the "best of the best" in our Club. That's what we meant by "classic'.

Take my mid 1920's Rolls Phantom, for example. What a BLAST that car is to drive. Yes, it is a "Springfield", so it isn;t cursed with British electrics . It starts RIGHT NOW & handles extremes of temp., stop & go parade driving, and cruises effortlessly at 50 mph+. And even tho it is technically a luxury car with relatively soft springing, it will "corner" superbly ("drifting" does get a bit "sporty" with those narrow tires, tho...!). Its light steering makes it a joy to "rough up".

At a recent prestige auto show, the judges asked us to start our cars. Parked alongside me was a later Phantom (around 1930) with its proud owner standing by. He had a puzzled look on his face. He couldnt understand why he was asked to start the car. It had come in on a trailer, handled by a crew of "go-fors" and mechanics from the restoration shop. Of course he looked puzzled. He had NO clue how you start it. HE HAD NEVER DRIVEN IT.

Want to start an early Rolls Royce ? (hint - DO NOT push the clutch pedal in when cranking the engine!). His crew eventually got it started, and with some tinkering, it ran fairly well. I observed later that something was VERY wrong with the steering mechanism - judging by the way the "go-for" was having trouble steering the car in the parking lot.

I can BET you that the owner of that car would NOT have enjoyed driving it, even after he figured out how to operate it.

At a Classic Car Club of America judging event, an owner was furious with me because I took points off, because when he closed the door, we could hear the window glass bouncing around inside (it had fallen out of its "track".) Of course the windows couldn't be operated - they'd never been repaired. Yes, the car was shiny and "pretty" in all respects, and THAT is what many so called "car hobbyists" want from their cars today - they are, effectively, costume jewelry - certainly not to be treated as fine machinery (which they were at one time ! ).

I would be the first to admit that on a hot day, I'd rather go Caravaning in a 1941 Cadillac Fleetwood, which could have been ordered new with "factory air" (along with power windows, thermostatically controlled heat, and the ability to cruise effortlessly at 90+ mph.). Instead of a 1931 Cadillac V-16 with its 4.6 rear axle ratio, with its motor "screaming" approaching "red-line" at 70.

Yes, each decade has brought us more pleasant driving vehicles. But are they FUN ? Sure, in their way.

In its effort to get more members and more dues money, the CCCA has, in the past 30 years or so, let more and more cars into our ranks that our "National Policy Surveys" of years gone by were rejected. We cant turn that clock back.

What we CAN do, is try and EDUCATE people that there is a REASON why we love those big-engined REAL classics so much. WHEN PROPERLY MAINTAINED, they really ARE fun to drive - LOTS of fun! Even the early ones. Heck, ESPECIALLY the early ones!

If you think I am exaggerating, attend an event where the big-engined classics are on display. See if you can find an owner who KNOWS his car and has MAINTAINED it as it should be. See if you can get a ride.

True, a mid twenties REAL classic if restored to bone-stock specs. is too low-geared for modern highway travel. That's the problem Dave has pointed out, and apparently will solve for his up-coming event. With a little imagination, I bet Dave will find us some touring roads in northern New Mexico that resemble the conditiions those cars were designed for.

I am a great believer in accepting the passage of time, and thus RE GEARING the big classics so that they can be driven fast enough so as not to be a hazzard, at least on secondary roads. I have a religious fervor about maintaining the classics so that they resemble their condition when in service as automobiles !

Only when your classic is brought back to the condition it was when in service, can you truly appreciate what magnificent fun vehicles they can be. As Bob Gottlieb once wrote in one of the first publications of the classic car hobby..

ENGINEERING EXAGGERATIONS..MAGNIFICENTLY OVER-DONE !

[Dave Fields]

Twunk Rack: Viewing points change over time. I've seen your 12 twice, and pictures of the fire truck with the accessories standing by it, but somehow missed that you had a Phantom I. Very few cars compare with that car in looks and in driving.

Somebody suggested a 5 day tour would be easier to attend. Any more thoughts on that? We are a very small region, so a day or two shorter would be helpful for us.

Would people feel slighted or somehow less if a lesser priced accomodations were offered? I had my 1942 Packard convertible at the Salado Packard meet one year and felt bad that we could not get accomodations at the Stage Coach Inn. Things worked out for us for the better in that a bif central Texas hail storm came up, and we had exclusive parking under the entrance porticol at our hotel down the road while other cars were damaged.

I remember years ago, we took our cars camping, and that was a lot of fun and low budget. Please keep your thoughts comming people; we are listening.

[Buicksplus]

To me, there is no experience that compares with driving any of my old cars. I love taking them on long trips and trying to actually get somewhere with them -- especially when I can do it with friends along in their old cars. When I take a long trip, in a day or so my old car becomes new -- I forget what modern cars drive like and my pre-war car feels more and more capable each day. Only by driving these cars substantial distances can one really feel what they are like as automobiles.

I tour a lot with the VMCCA and other car clubs. Although VMCCA specializes in old car touring, they acknowledge that only 10% of VMCCA members have been on a tour. I am sure the percentage for CCCA is far lower. I guess for many, old cars are more fun to look at than to actually drive.

I don't think the cost of the Caravans is really a problem. I have done some work on the NM caravan and I don't think it will be all that expensive except in time and transportation to and from the event. I think it is 9 days long, that's a long time and lots of nights in hotels.


Bill, NM

[1940_Buick]

If I may comment... I am an admirer of the classics, particularly the early classics, but not an owner. I do however have early cars (1911 EMF and 1921 Ford) and drive them a lot, locally and on tours. I've often dreamed of what it would be like to tour with one of the great classics.

The HCCA, AACA, MTFCA, and MTFCI tours that I've participated in have for the most part been great successes for a number of reasons:

1) The number of days touring is kept to between 3 and 5. When you consider travel time to and from the event adding 2 more days, its about as long as the average person can get away.

2) Distance toured each day is kept to 60 to 120 miles. Granted our cars are not as smooth or powerful as the classics. But that's enough time in the saddle, before it's not fun anymore.

3) Roads are carefully chosen. Generally we stick to roads where you can drive 35 - 40 mph without affecting modern traffic. This is probably the most critical aspect. For us, even roads with heavy traffic at 45+ mph are not much fun. You're too worried about survival to enjoy the scenery.

4) Destinations and stops are plentiful and interesting. We generally only drive an hour or two between stops. Stops may be coffee stops at an interesting location, tours of private collections, museums, etc.

I can appreciate cars that are restored for show, cars that are carefully maintained for touring, and original cars. But driving these automobiles, feeling the machinery at work, and seeing America at a pace that allows you to enjoy everything you see, is what I really enjoy. You can't truly enjoy the scenery when you're blasting past it at 55 mph.

During "driving weather" we take our cars out several times each week. Of course we are fortunate to live in an area with plenty of back roads. But we also travel longer distances. The past summer we drove from eastern PA, to WV, then through MD, all with a our Model T. We just choose our roads carefully, and set our GPS to avoid highways.

It must be great to spend time behind one of those great engines of the classic era. I wouldn't be able to just keep it in the garage.