PreWar Mercedes Benz

[Skip Jordan]

Just a note because I can't start a new thread anymore.

The new Home Page looks great, but it takes forever to load and to navigate away from. I have a very good broadband/fiber optic connection, so that's not an issue. Any ideas on trying to start a new thread?

[Killerbunny]

This may be the last picture of the Caracciola 500K before it disappeared into Klein's storage. Supposedly, that's Rudi Klein on the far right.

Amazing...

[alsancle]

I need to choose a MB engine & drivetrain to power a 1936 540K special roadster. This is not a "Heritage" or other fiberglas kit car; it is a true 540K built by some of the premier restoration experts for the original cars. It will be a 540K in every respect except engine, transmission and suspension. Of course the original was a supercharged straight 8. I'm thinking about an M103 from a 1989 300SE. What would you put in this car and why? Thanks for any input. I think the two basic arguments are: (1) something that looks relatively period (straight six), and (2) something that would cause car guys to exclaim, "Hey, nice engine."

Would love to see some pictures. It is your project of course, but if you have an exact replica then you have obviously spent some significant money. An engine from an 89 would very uninteresting in my mind. A couple of years ago there was a straight 8 from a Type 500 for sale. That would have been perfect. Not a 500k engine of course but MB and period appropriate. I would vote for a straight 8 overhead valve engine of 1930s vintage.

[540K]

Would love to see some pictures. It is your project of course, but if you have an exact replica then you have obviously spent some significant money. An engine from an 89 would very uninteresting in my mind. A couple of years ago there was a straight 8 from a Type 500 for sale. That would have been perfect. Not a 500k engine of course but MB and period appropriate. I would vote for a straight 8 overhead valve engine of 1930s vintage.

I agree. Another suggestion has been an M189 3-litre from the mid-60s. Apparently last of the large SOHC MB engines. I am leaning that direction at the moment. Also interesting is an M110 -- DOHC, but straight 6. I'm going to drive this car, so I'm not leaning toward 80-yr-old engines. The M103 is boring, but many think it might be the most reliable option.

[Skip Jordan]

I have been looking for an overhead chassis image for the Mercedes SS-SSK for quite some time, but can't find one.

Does anyone know where the battery is located and what type it is?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it in my original owner's/tech manual with the electrical diagram. The battery box is attached to the left frame rail under the seat. Going through my references, I have a lot more than I remembered. It's tough getting older.

[Skip Jordan]

On another note, does anyone know the difference between the two following carburetor/air intake setups?

This first one is a fairly typical SSK engine. Note that there are two air intakes above the carburetors that enter the cylinder head; each one has a hose that goes down and attaches to the side of the oil pan.



This second shot is from a 1933 SS W 06 Sportzweisitzer (Cabriolet A) that I've posted a while back in this thread. Note that there are no hoses going from the large intakes, but there are three smaller ones, with connecting hoses, that are attached to the cylinder head. This is evidently a one-of-a-kind factory set-up. Has anyone seen this on another SS/SSK, or know any details about it?

[Skip Jordan]

On another subject that you may find of interest...Alberto de Oliveira, a Portuguese modeler who passed away last year at 85, specialized in large-scale Mercedes (typically 1/8) and he was building until the end. Everything was scratch-built using wooden bucks and metal, some of it simply upsized from existing kits, and he had a friend with Mercedes who supplied him with vast amounts of reference. He also was a collector of zillions of Mercedes diecasts. The web pages are in Portuguese, but you can see his accomplishments in the images. His son is trying to sell the entire collection, asking around 90,000 euros.

http://alberto-de-ol...a.blogspot.com/

Construction process:

http://alberto-de-ol...i.blogspot.com/



Galleries:

http://alberto-de-ol...s.blogspot.com/

[alsancle]

Very Cool. Would love to get my hands on that Cab "A" as the real ones seem to be well over 1 million these days.

Btw, your links are broke. Here is one that works: ALBERTO DE OLIVEIRA

[Skip Jordan]

Thanks. In addition to the main page link you posted, here are better links for the others:

Construction -
ALBERTO DE OLIVEIRA

Galleries -
Alberto de Oliveira

[DavidAU]

Here is one for the Pre-war enthusists...........with deep pockets.

Bonhams 1793 : 'Lost Mercedes' - A Titan of the pre-war era - surfaces at Bonhams

[alsancle]

Here is one for the Pre-war enthusists...........with deep pockets.

Bonhams 1793 : 'Lost Mercedes' - A Titan of the pre-war era - surfaces at Bonhams

Looks like an English body so I assume England? They don't say much about the car specifically. I imagine it will do very well.

[tilomagnet]

Will the Von Krieger Mercedes-Benz 540K break the record for cars sold at public auction? - Resurrectedrestorations.com » Resurrectedrestorations.com

Won't be cheap I guess.

1935 Mercedes-Benz 500 K Roadster confiscated in Germany from a car collector

Have not seen this posted here yet.....this may get interesting in the future. Considering so many of these cars were originally delivered in Germany and then "got away" in the early post war years either to the US or the SU, some present owners in Germany that have acquired repatriated cars might get a little nervous.

What will happen if the Krupp heirs decide they want Alfried`s Special Roadster back?!

[alsancle]

I'm not sure what record they are referring to with the Von Krieger 540k. I'm sure it could set a record for Special Roadsters which I think is 8.5 but I don't see it setting any all time records. Perhaps I'm naive . It was nice to see it returned to it's original colors. If the new owner drops the whitewalls then it will be looking very fine indeed.

As for the mess in Germany. If the car was reported as stolen in 1945/46 that is one situation, but heirs "discovering" their grandads car was a 540k and then wanting it back is another. This is what I posted in another forum:

Most prewar MB production was sold to European owners new - which is what you would expect. New MB sales in the U.S for the period of 1936 to 1940 was approx 30 cars of all models and maybe 10 500k/540ks. A U.S. delivered car would be safe from this. However, a large number of 500k/540K Mercedes, as well as Horch and other desirable European cars were purchased by GI's and brought back to the U.S.. I doubt many of these (if any) have any paperwork from that transaction. Of course, the cars coming back from the USSR and eastern Europe could have an even more murky history.

The problem is at this point there is no reasonable way to tell if a car was stolen/confiscated or legally purchased. Basically a mess. I think it's critical that the claim the car was stolen was made in period and documented and not conjured about by someone's great grandchildren.

I don't know the whole story on this car. I do feel bad for the current owner who has done nothing wrong. Hopefully the whole thing will be sorted out in a reasonable way.

[alsancle]

One other anecdote on this, I noticed a 540k that has been for sale by a dealer in the U.S. for some time just updated his ad to emphasis the car was bought at auction directly after WWII.

[Lee Classic Cars]

Hello. Not sure I am doing this correctly. Here is an image of a 1938 Mercedes 540K - and there are more at:

Mercedes 540K – 1938 | Lee Ann Torrans Explores Dallas

LeeAnnTorrans.info

[alsancle]

That 540k is currently for sale here. Nice older restoration with about a dozen incorrect parts that need to be unbolted from the car. Starting with those driving lights.

[tilomagnet]

Very nice late Cab A. Love the patina and the "used" look. Cosmetically this could be turned into a real stunner with just a couple days of work. Just get rid of all the bling bling. But will probably need costly mechanical revision if it sat unused for a longer time.

[alsancle]

I agree much of it could be fixed relatively inexpensively. Taking that chrome off the fenders however could be very expensive.

[Skip Jordan]

Coming up, August 18-19, Gooding & Company will be auctioning the Von Krieger 1936 540 K Special Roadster at Pebble Beach, expected to fetch the highest price of any Mercedes ever sold at auction (eclipsing the $9-million-plus of the last one).

Von Krieger’s 1936 Mercedes-Benz 540K for Sale at Gooding & Company

[alsancle]

My understanding is that this car will bring more than 13 million. Looks great in black.

[Skip Jordan]

If the Caracciola 500K coupe was properly restored and brought to auction, I bet it would sell for much more.

[alsancle]

That would be interesting. I don't think I would bet against it.

[Skip Jordan]

That would be interesting. I don't think I would bet against it.

Unfortunately, I have recently heard from a contact who is involved in the negotiations, and they have basically given up. He doesn't think that car will ever see the light of day again.

[alsancle]

Unfortunately, I have recently heard from a contact who is involved in the negotiations, and they have basically given up. He doesn't think that car will ever see the light of day again.

It will, just maybe not for 20 or 30 years. Eventually everything comes out.

[Skip Jordan]

It will, just maybe not for 20 or 30 years. Eventually everything comes out.

I think it will either rust away before then, or go up in flames. Have you seen the pictures of the salvage yard in South Central L.A. where it's stored? That place looks like a tinderbox.