[Dave Fields]

Why aren't 1949 Rolls Royce and Bentleys classics? They are 99.9% the sane as 1948's, in fact, many of the engines, chassis, and bodies wold have been made, even partly assembled in 1928. Why is there so much politits in this hobby?

[alsancle]

Ahh this is always fun. The club made a huge mistake when it went post war - in my opinion. The 59 Silver Wraith is mechanically identical to the 48 also. You need to draw the line somewhere and that line should have been 42 - although the true classic era was just about kaput by 40.

[Trunk Rack]

I recently rented a new Chevrolet, which had, in chrome script, on its trunk-lid identifying it as a "classic".

[keiser31]

Originally Posted by Trunk Rack

I recently rented a new Chevrolet, which had, in chrome script, on its trunk-lid identifying it as a "classic".

Yep....Rambler had a "Classic", too. You can call anything a classic, but we all know a REAL classic when we see one.

[Dave Fields]

No, the line should have been 1939, the end of the V-12 era, but, Europe continued to make custom and hand built cars after the war, and Ghia continues into the 60's. The line should be drawn by a standard, not by a year. The Mercedes of the 50's had the swooping fenders, and attention to detail that Classics in the 30's had. Ditto for the RR and Bentley, Ghias, Ferraris, etc. The club is heading south quickly with membership losses at a critical stage. As goes GMC, so goes CCCA, HCCA and others.

[alsancle]

The membership number comes up all the time as an argument to expand the allowable cars. The CCCA puts out the best newsletter and magazine of any old car club BY WIDE MARGIN. As far as I can tell all functions and meets are well attended. There are no financial problems that I'm aware of. Why does the membership roster need to be expanded?

As far as going the way of General Motors, I didn't realize that the CCCA was on the hook for health care benefits to 3.5 million people.

[Dave Fields]

Alancle: That's what GMC said - except it was about expanding sales. In 10 years, CCCA and HCCA will be gone. Is that what you want? The Scottsdale evet this Spring was not well attended. I would estimate there could easily be 300 Classic cars in gthe Phoenix valley, yet some 30 showed up. Look at this forum - no repsonses to the New Mexico tour, very few to the Scottsdale show. The only way to get action on this forum is to suggest change. What does that tell you?
CCCA is a wonderful organization, wonderful publications, people, events,and the streingth and energy and participation is diminishing. It would be wonderful if there was as much interest in growing and developing the club as there is against any change or development that could increase the long term health of the club.

[edinmass]

Interesting that everyone still sees the CCCA and HCCA as going the way of GM. I spent the last 4 years looking for a good brass car, and just was able to purchase one recently. The early cars over 50 hp are almost impossible to find, unless you have limitless supply of money. I just returned from the Pierce national meet in Ca, there were no less than 15% of the cars on display owned by someone less than 40 years of age. Three cars that were owned by ladies were judged. Two of them were in their 20's. I would guess there were about 20 youngsters and grand children around. Some clubs may see some membership swings, but in the long run, they will remain. As far as CCCA goes, as a life member I would rather see it come to an end than give up the high standards it has been keeping for 50 plus years. It is already slipping with the Town & Country approval, but that is what happens when non car people start running the show. Just my few cents worth. Ed Minnie

[Trunk Rack]

Dave is right - we could be losing members in the CCCA and HCCA. However, I did check with several local junk-yards - seems to me nobody is cutting up for scrap any Loziers, Thomas Flyers, Pierce 66's, Cad. V-16's, etc. etc. etc.

So, let's apply a little reason to this discussion. If we cant demonstrate that the cars are being cut up for scrap, then I guess we will have to accept the fact that the cars still exist and may well continue to exist ?

I recently attended the LOS ANGELES CONCOURS DE ELEGANCE. The people placing the cars have a reputation of drawing out BIG crowds and PLENTY of cars. That REPUTATION is what made that meet work. LOTS of "brass" showed up (and yes, I noticed the same phenomena - lots of young people are really "turned on" by brass).

Anyone think the classic and antique car hobbies are losing significance ? Go make an offer on a big brass car, and see if you can get someone to sell it to you for less than all the gold in the Federal Reserve !

Is it possible that the reason SOME car shows dont get a good turn-out from the "brass" and "big classic" people is that the present meets arent that interesting to attract the "big guns" ?

Suppose Dave is right, and membership drops. Let's take an extreme example. Suppose the approxl. SIX THOUSAND member CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA looses HALF its membership. WOW ! And then, loses HALF of that? Would that mean the organization falls apart ?

Gawd - we are left with a approx TWO THOUSAND strong membership in the CCCA ?

Sounds terrible, dosnt it ? Hmmm...gee whiz, folks, that's about the membership it was in its "glory days", when we would typically have 40-60 cars show up for our meets !

Let's be honest. People LIKE the word "classic". They WANT to use the word "classic". Especially if they are trying to "unload" something...!

Not too long ago I noted I sat in a fast food joint and enjoyed a CLASSIC sandwich with my CLASSIC coke, while parked next to a CAPRICE CLASSIC, across from CLASSIC PLUMBING....!

Given present AACA rules, who can deny that my 1985 Toyota Corolla is about to be an "antique" car ! Anyone remember the impassioned letter from a fellow who owned a '41 Cadillac Fleetwood "60S" to the CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE, warning them NOT to admit cars like his? There is strong pressure now to change the present rule to 15 years and it is an "antique" ?

Anyone remember how the old LONG RANGER radio show began " LETS GO BACK TO THE STIRRING DAYS OF YESTERYEAR"...when people in the AACA CCCA were there NOT because they cared too much what other people called anyone's cars, or what the cars MIGHT be worth. They were in these clubs because they LIKED the cars then acceptable, and enjoyed the company of others with similar cars THEN acceptable!

And they (according to repeated Club Surveys of that era) were VERY VERY firm in the statement in the CCCCA HANDBOOK AND DIRECTORY that said = =

IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE POLICY OF THE CLUB THAT
IN ALL CLUB EVENTS THE ONLY CARS ELIGIBLE FOR PARTICIPATION
WILL BE CARS DESIGNATED AS CLASSIC CARS . . .DEVIATION
IS LICENSE TO DESTROY...THRU DIMINUTION OF THE HIGH
VALUES WE HAVE SET FOR OURSELVES.

No-one can deny that the post 1940 Cadillacs, Packards, and Buicks are splendid cars. Who would want to take a fast ride across the desert in the summer in a 1931 Cadillac Empress Imperial V-16 town car, if you had a choice of riding in a '41 Fleetwood, with its high speed gearing, pressure water cooling, four speed automatic transmission, vastly superior handling, and FACTORY AIR CONDITIONING !

Who can deny that a late '40's Rolls isnt also a superb car. But isnt a '60's Cadillac also a superb car ?

Hey, my used Toyota isn't a bad car either! Anyone have any suggestions as to where we draw the line ?

Some of us think that "flooding the membership lists" with an ever wider defintion of what constitutes a "classic" or an "antique" is precisely what is WRONG with the old car movement.

[Dave Fields]

Last I checked, CCCA membership is just over 4,000, way below the 6000 you supposed the current membership to be. So, your arguement is already is serious trouble. What is the average membership age? Certainly above 60, I would guess somewhere in the mid 70's. Do the math.
The people you should be surveying is not the current membership - you already have their business, but the people who aren't in the club.

My family joined the AACA in 1957 -I was three. I know a bit about the hobby, its history, where it was, in the case of the smaller clubs, where they are going. At no time did I even hint that a Toyota, or a 1960 Cadillac should be a classic car - or a 15 year old car. See, the only way to argue against my point is to give looney examples. It is hard to argue against logic, against reason, isn't it?