When I was a kid in the 70s going to CCCA events everybody there was over 70. Same in the 80s, same in the 90s same now. My guess is that what happens is car guy's tastes eventually refine to the point where they want a classic. Some start out in musclecars (that would be me) some start out in foreign sports or 50s cars but eventually you want to get to the top of the mountain. There is always a next generation of 50 and 60 year olds to join the club. Like a previous poster said, the cars are not going away.
My father joined the CCCA in 1957, and I joined the CCCA in 1990 when I was 16. I plan on being a member the rest of my life. I don't go to a lot of meets right now because of work, family, kids, ect. There are a lot of second generation members out there who aren't real active right at this time because they're in their 30's & 40's & have families. Wait 10 - 15 years & they'll be more active. The CCCA isn't going anywhere. While I don't agree with every decision the National Board makes, it's still one of the better run clubs and does put out an excellent publication. When the other gentleman was refering to the 1940 cutoff - he was referring to the V 16 Cadillac of 1940 which is undeniably a Classic. I'd like to see a meet held at Hickory Corners that honors "original list" Classics. Car that were on the original 1953 list. Maybe we should start giving ribbons to these cars at Grand Classics just like we do original cars. Unfortunately, there are some meets where not many of these ribbons would be given out.
That original list did not include the Twin Iginition Nash 8 cylinder that had more horsepower and was lighter than all but a very few cars in 1930 -1931. Going back to the original list makes as much sense as the Catholic Church going back to Latin or the Episcopalian reverting to the 1929 Book of Common Prayer to increase attendance.
There are less Classics all the time. A fire here, a flood there, a tornado, or other disaster. True, Classics are not going to junk yards, but there are many that are "parts cars" (No "salvage" Van Goghs!) And parts cars are salvage cars and that is the same as wrecking yards.
I was around in the 60's 70's and 80's, and the membership was clearly younger.
If the hobby is thriving -and posts in these and other chat rooms over the past 18 months indicate that t isn't as tour and meet attendance is down, then whay are there so few Classics and other collector cars being restored now? The shops are shutting down -temporarilly or perminately - because owners are not paying the kitty.
Come on, you guys are too easy, you loose every arguement!
__________________ 1929 Chrysler 65 roadster restored
1930 Nash Twin Ignition 8 Cabrolet, unrestored
1942 Packard Custom 8 convertible restored
1942 Packard Super 8 project
1946 Packard pick up project with Packard White engine
1947 Bentley GT 2 door street rod
1950 DeSoto woody restoration almost done
1969 Dodge pickup E-100 unrestored
1970 Triumph TR250 (MC)HPOF
1976 Mercedes 450 SL
1982 Lincoln Continental
Last I checked, CCCA membership is just over 4,000, way below the 6000 you supposed the current membership to be. So, your arguement is already is serious trouble. . . . It is hard to argue against logic, against reason, isn't it?
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Dave and I are BOTH wrong as to exact counts. (although I was closer than his guess !).
I just checked ( See Pp. 4, last issue of BULLETTIN OF THE CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA,) Terry Johnson, Membership Committee, reported 5,272, "236 fewer members than the previous year".
Time and demographics are definitely on the side of those who want all kinds of changes to the AACA & CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA. True, the CCCA's "National Survery Results" down thru the years were overwhelming that the CCCA should NOT change its traditional standards. But that was then.
Those who desired to "dilute our high standards" (that is part of a quote from one of our traditional "Club Policy Statements") correctly recognized that the most effective way to over-rule the traditions of the CCCA, is to "flood" it with new members.
Same goes for AACA. We arent supposed to discuss it, but a (admittedly much smaller) AACA once took the position that Model A Fords were too "modern" to be called "antiques". Because to some, the word "antique" had a real-world meaning. Meaning EXTERNAL contracting brakes on only TWO wheels, "T" head type motors, etc.
As proof of Dave's position, and to under-score how obsolete we "tradtionalists" who built the CCCA are, if we turn to Page 9 of our current HANDBOOK AND DIRECTORY, we can find that our traditional POLICY STATEMENTS have been 'over-printed" with the note " MAY CONFLICT WITH CURRENT POLICIES".
As further proof that Dave's views represent what is going on today, we find post-war Chryslers (even 6 cyl. ones!) are now welcomed in the CCCA.
The warning of a fellow "traditionalist" member of the CCCA, of several decades ago, by the owner of a '41 Cadillac Fleetwood proved correct. Of course he loved his '41 Cadillac Fleetwood, and for good reason (see my post above). Fantastic car ! But he didnt want that car in the CCCA!
His warning (published in the CCCA BULLETIN of that decade) correctly foretold what would happen to the "standards" of the CCCA, if we let in that year & model car.
First came the post 1940 "top of the line" Cadillacs. Then came the standard "off the shelf" Cadillac "62" series. Then came the Packard Clippers. Oh yes, "just this once" and ONLY for the "top of the line" Clipper Custom series. Then "just this once" admit the "Super Clipper"
And so it goes. So, "just this once" we now have 6 cyl. Chyslers. "Just this once" will we have post 1948 Rolls Royces" ? Why not?
Go look at any of the current hobby publications - just for example - HEMMINGS MOTOR NEWS. Try and find a page in which ANY used car for sale, or some supplier of services, is NOT called a "classic" ! Yesterday, I bought some shoe-laces in the grocery store. You guessed it..CLASSIC shoe-laces !
So - the traditionalists like me can fume and sulk, but Dave's position now represents the direction of the old car hobby.
Sic transit gloria !
As to the '85 Toyota Corolla ? You are wrong, Dave - next year that most certainly WILL be considered an "antique" by the AACA (hmm...does that mean only the air-conditioned models ? ).
Last edited by Trunk Rack; July 6th, 2009 at 15:21.
Hey Dave, take a look in the AACA forum under "restoration projects" up near the top. There's a guy who just sold his 1963 Buick Riviera and who says he is "solidly pre war now" with a 1932 Cadillac and a Pierce Arrow. Now that's
what I call step in the right direction! I don't think the guy is that old either, maybe in his 50's. The Full Classic Car hobby isn't dead to that guy!
Mr Fields, I was not looking for or trying to win the argument about lesser cars. But that being said, and with ALL DUE RESPECT to you and the people who agree with you....... well, here it goes, you asked for it.
1929 Chrysler 65 roadster restored
1930 Nash Twin Ignition 8 Cabriolet, unrestored
1942 Packard Custom 8 convertible restored
1942 Packard Super 8 project
1946 Packard pick up project with Packard White engine
1947 Bentley GT 2 door street rod
1950 DeSoto woody restoration almost done
1969 Dodge pickup E-100 unrestored
1970 Triumph TR250 (MC)HPOF
1976 Mercedes 450 SL
1982 Lincoln Continental
Above is your list of your cars as posted when you connect with this forum. Let's take a look at them, one by one, and comment on them. Remember we are commenting on the quality, construction, and design of the vehicle. Classic: clas⋅sic /ˈklæsɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [klas-ik] Show IPA
of the first or highest quality, class, or rank: a classic piece of work.
2.
serving as a standard, model, or guide: the classic method of teaching arithmetic.
3.
of or pertaining to Greek and Roman antiquity, esp. with reference to literature and art.
4.
modeled upon or imitating the style or thought of ancient Greece and Rome: The 17th and 18th centuries were obsessed with classic ideals.
5.
of or adhering to an established set of artistic or scientific standards or methods: a classic example of mid-Victorian architecture.
6.
basic; fundamental: the classic rules of warfare.
7.
of enduring interest, quality, or style: a classic design; classic clothes.
8.
of literary or historical renown: the classic haunts of famous writers.
9.
traditional or typical: a classic comedy routine.
10.
definitive: the classic reference work on ornithology.
11.
of or pertaining to automobiles distinguished by elegant styling, outstanding engineering, and fine workmanship that were built between about 1925 and 1948
This was the first definition when punched into google. WOW look at number 11. It almost knocked me over. Who says the internet is full of bad information? Number one, seven, and eleven apply.
82 Lincoln, Why would this be listed as anything but a every day used car or a winter driver.
76 Mercedes, See above comments.
70 Triumph, A fun small toy, not a great road car, and certainly never on a list of the best of it's era, it never has and never will be considered a great car BY ANY STANDARD.
69 Dodge , Old used pick up. Useful as an around town driver or run to the land fill vehicle. Fun to drive, maybe. Better than going to the dump in a 1980's Nissian. Uninspired design, for sure.
50 DeSoto Woody, On this one I may surprise some members. I like the car and find it interesting. Almost bought one years ago myself. It's rare. Style is nothing to write home about.(Remember I like it! And by the way I find the 1936 V-12 Pierce in my garage as uninspired as far as style goes.) Chassis, can be only described as run of the mill. I think that this is the first car on your list to achieve a true label of collector car. On a list of post war great cars, never. Fun to own and drive, YES. Interesting, Yes. Worthy of the term CLASSIC, no.
47 Bentley Street Rod, I shall make no comment as it would tend to offend.
46 Packard Pick up, I have never seen one and would guess it's a cut down sedan or possibly a flower car? I don't collect trucks. So to be fair, no comment.
42 Packard Super 8, While you don't list a body style, I prefer closed cars but any Packard Super 8 is a great car regardless of body style. Great drivers by any standard. Worthy of the term CLASSIC, yes. World class automobile, Yes if it has a Darrin body, factory body of any style, no.
42 PCKARD Custom 8, While I am no expert on Packard's, and am not sure what series it is, I will make the following comments. 110's and 120's are great running and driving cars, driven them many miles and enjoyed the trip, Classic?, NO. 160's and 180's Very fine automobile, as good as any Cadillac of the era, Classic, Yes. World class collector car with factory body, No. Darrin, Yes.
30 Nash, Interesting car. Quality car yes, Classic, No.
29 Chrysler, Decent production car of the era. Interesting too me, no. Classic, No.
Like many of the bikers on Harley Davidsons say, If you have to ask, then you just don't understand.
Speaking of Darrin-bodied cars, there is a very rough '42 Continental bodied by Darrin, which is on sale on that auction site whose name cannot be mentioned (see pics below). I had read about the car in the Lincoln-Zephyr club magazine. Darrin designed some beautiful cars, but not so sure about *this* one.
So few Classics and other collector cars being restored now? Let's see, what do we have in the shop being actively restored at this time.....1937 Packard Super 8. 1927 Kissel Brougham, 1929 Ford Cretors Popcorn Wagon, 1948 Nash Ambassador Conv, 1959 Cadillac Conv, 1933 Packard Conv, 1953 Henney Ambulance, 1937 Buick Sayres and Scovil Hearse, 1959 Eureka Hearse, 1909 Only, 1937 GMC Rescue Truck, 1949 VW, 1937 Ford 60 HP, 1928 Cadillac Dual Cowl and a 1939 Packard Super 8. The death of the Classic/Collector car hobby has been greatly exaggerated.
__________________ 1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1933 Packard Coupe Sedan
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
Here is a list of car at the local restoration shop near my home. 38 Pierce V-12, 37 Pierce V-12, 28 Stutz, V-16 Cadillac, 31 Pierce, 10 Pope, 14 Cadillac, 72 Chevy. Sure looks like the demand is still on the big stuff.
July 6th, 2009
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