[charlier]

Originally Posted by novaman

What I don't like is when you and your dad enter the STOCK Chevy II class and have the only two STOCK Chevy IIs in the show and two others take home the first and second. One of the cars had a rollcage and slicks!! (non-AACA show) What part of stock don't the judges understand?? The only time I was upset leaving a show in 26 years.

novaman, the non AACA car shows I attend and/or judge at always make me laugh when it comes to their definition of "Stock". I hear the same question over and over and over to which I usually laugh OUT LOUD.

Q: How many MODIFICATIONS can my car have when it is entered in the STOCK class????

I guess it is just me. A MODIFIED vehicle belongs in the MODIFIED class at these shows.
The modified classes tend to have MANY MORE entries than the stock classes. Modified car owners who are "Trophy Hounds" think that they stand a better chance of an award if they put their modified car in the stock class (ie sandbagging). That does not always work for them if the stock class judge deducts for their modification (which is my policy and the policy of most of these events).

This situation gets very interesting when the car owner of a modified vehicle (in a stock class) gets very upset and wants to know WHY they did not win. When I judge cars like that I usually write down all the mods that deductions were taken for. After that list gets to 15-20+ modification I usually stop since the car owner usually realizes that the judge knows what they were trying to do (ie sandbagging) and has called them on it.

[Stonefish]

If, in fact, cars are not in competition with each other…as many have stated. Why is it always recommended (and it has to me on several occasions) to attend a smaller national event: "Go where fewer cars turn up" or "you have a better chance at getting your First Junior outside of Hershey".
If a car meets the minimum requirement to achieve a First Junior…regardless of what cars are in the class…the cars should be awarded as such.
Does the AACA keep track or keep historic records on a particular car's point record from every show it attends? If so, I would guess it is not information that can be accessed by a car owner. Sure would be interesting to see…..

[novaman]

Originally Posted by Biscayne John

I have never had the pleasure to attend a meet out West for the AACA. I have noticed the same with the VCCA that judging is not really important and the classes do not have the same number of vehicles as they do in the East.
Later,

Why is it always recommended (and it has to me on several occasions) to attend a smaller national event: "Go where fewer cars turn up" or "you have a better chance at getting your First Junior outside of Hershey".

I'm tying the two together. If you take a close look at the membership and I'm surre it applies to VCCA also, the number of members per sq area west of the mississippi is much smaller. Look at Hershey region with I think I heard something like 500+ members, NC Region with 600+ members and Hornet's Nest Region which I believe is 100+, when talking area that those regions cover your not talking a very large area for over 1,200 members and there are a lot of other regions in those same areas. With large membership numbers like that, there are a large number of vehicles that could turn out for a Meet. Less populated areas out west aren't going to draw as many cars. With that lower number or cars turning out there is a less likely chance of that 400 point car showing up that everyone dreads. whichs lowers the standard for everyone else. The AACA point system is based on those within ten points get the same award. Ideally that would be everyone 390+ but that wouldn't be practiacal. so it is within 10 points of the highest point car which brings more cars into that award level. What everyone seems to get hung up on it the "saftey" of 365 which prevents someone from bringing a piece of junk to a meet and taking home a 1st.

[novaman]

Originally Posted by Stonefish

If, in fact, cars are not in competition with each other…as many have stated. Why is it always recommended (and it has to me on several occasions) to attend a smaller national event: "Go where fewer cars turn up" or "you have a better chance at getting your First Junior outside of Hershey".
If a car meets the minimum requirement to achieve a First Junior…regardless of what cars are in the class…the cars should be awarded as such.
Does the AACA keep track or keep historic records on a particular car's point record from every show it attends? If so, I would guess it is not information that can be accessed by a car owner. Sure would be interesting to see…..

AACA does and they have followed some cars that have attended every meet ina year and those cars scored within a few points of itself at each meet. The deductions might not have been the same items each time, but the scores were close.

What I'd be curiuos to see is how many vehicles scored 385 or worse and still got thier first due to the "curve" of just needing to be within ten points of the highest car. If you go to a specified point cut off, you know as well as I do, that cut off will be raised. I personaly know of a number of cars I've judged that would fall in that group.

[Bob Hill]

Why don't we just give everyone a 1st Junior and that way no one complains

I for one am sick and tired of folks wanting to change the rules so they can win. If your car is good enough, the 10 point spread won't hurt you. If your car isn't good enough, you lose because you didn't deserve the award. That is called life - accept the rules or move on.

I earned my Senior awards because my cars were good enough to win, not because I wanted the rules changed so I could win. Keep it up and a Senior Award will be meaningless.

BOB (with flame suit on)

[Biscayne John]

I for one am sick and tired of folks wanting to change the rules so they can win. If your car is good enough, the 10 point spread won't hurt you. If your car isn't good enough, you lose because you didn't deserve the award. That is called life - accept the rules or move on.

Bob,
Do you mean just like the battery and headlight rules? Because these are the type of rules that will dilute the quality of the winning vehicles, and the value of the awards. My replies to this thread are not as a "sore looser" my cars are good enough and have won, and I even had won a Bomgardner with one of them in 2007. I feel I am entitled to offer my view as a "winner" just like you.

What if there is a class that has six cars all around 370, now they all move up, you are not going to tell me that will not dilute the system? But then again if the physical score sheet is never returned, nobody will know the point value.

I am not concerned about my awards, I earned them already, but we all should be concerend with the people who leave not feeling satisfied with the system because they feel it is unfair. There will always be a certain percentage that will never be happy. There is a way for someone to loose and feel good about it, and telling people to "accept the rules the rules or move on" is far from doing that. This is the type of comment that only reinforces the negative feelings anyone may have. I am sure it was not done intentionally, if I were to be on the loosing side and someone said that to me I do not think I would return, would you?

[Stonefish]

I too have multiple award winning cars. I just don't feel the need to post their accomplishments in my signature. Personally, another award on the mantle is just another dust collector...and not the reason I go to shows. Awards outside of AACA, such as marque focused shows, carry more weight in my eyes. I've seen too many cars that are plagued with wrong engines, modifications and modern parts get senior awards too make me desire such status.
bottom line for me is..... If a car is "good enough" and reaches the minimum number and above to receive a Jr. or Sr....it should. REGARDLESS, of any other car in the class.