[machittome]

Thanks,

I found this info on the Tire Rack web site. It is the "P!"

What's the difference between the tire sizes of P225/60R16 and 225/60R16? The obvious answer is the "P" in front of the first size, but just what does the "P" stand for and what does it tell us about the tires?

P-metric sized tires are the ones with the "P" at the beginning of the tire size, (such as P225/60R16 listed above). They were introduced in the United States in the late 70s and are installed on vehicles primarily used to carry passengers including cars, station wagons, sport utility vehicles and even light duty pickup trucks. Their load capacity is based on an engineering formula which takes into account their physical size (the volume of space for air inside the tire) and the amount of air pressure (how tightly the air molecules are compressed). Since all P-metric sizes are all based on the formula for load, vehicle manufacturers can design their new vehicles (weights and wheelwell dimensions) around either existing or new tire sizes.

Metric or Euro metric sized tires are the ones without the "P" at the beginning, (such as 185R14 or the 225/60R16 listed above). Using metric dimensions to reflect a tire's width actually began in Europe in the late 60s. However, since Euro metric sizes have been added over time based on the load and dimensional requirements of new vehicles, the tire manufacturers designed many new tire sizes and load capacities around the needs of new vehicles. Not quite as uniform as creating sizes using a formula, but they got the job done.

Euro metric and P-metric tires in the same size (i.e. P225/60R16 & 225/60R16) are equivalent in their dimensions with just slight differences in their load capacity calculations and inflation pressure tables. So if Euro metric and P-metric tires have the same numeric size, the same tire performance category and the same speed rating, the two are considered equivalent and interchangeable if used in axle pairs or sets of four. Simply continue to follow your vehicle manufacturer's recommended inflation pressures provided in the vehicle's owner's manual or on the vehicle tire placard (usually found on the door jamb or on the glovebox or counsel door) for either size tire.

I'll see you in class!
Ken

[windjamer]

IMHO this is the same as cheating. I most always judge chassis and although I know its one knee on the ground,if I suspect cheating I will go the extra mile to protect AACA standards.

[Semi-Intelligent]

Susan, Thanks for passing the comment along. I share flea market spaces beside Eric for 2 years now. We usually have a few discussions on judging, and old cars in general.

Another comment on the 'No Markings Tires'. The chassis judge is NOT supposed to crawl around on the knees to judge a chassis; however, in this situation I think the rule most be changed.
My thoughts:
1. When these tires are encountered the chassis judge should be permitted
to check the back side of the tire.
2. The v.p., class judging should push for this rule change to solve the
problem.
3. All team captains should inform their chassis judge to come to them IF
they encounter these tires. Then the team captain can note on the
judging form the fact that these non-authenic tires were on said car, and
the max deduction was delivered.
4. The team captain should also inform the owner.
5. This might/should end the problem, and send the message to car owners
to get there tires with the program.
6. Final thought; If the chassis judge is embrassed to crawl around to check
out the back of a tire, then the team captain could do so. My reason for
this thought are the ladies involved in the judging program. I really don't
think to many of them would appreciate having to do what I just
suggested.

[Shop Rat]

Originally Posted by Semi-Intelligent

Susan, Thanks for passing the comment along. I share flea market spaces beside Eric for 2 years now. We usually have a few discussions on judging, and old cars in general.

Another comment on the 'No Markings Tires'. The chassis judge is NOT supposed to crawl around on the knees to judge a chassis; however, in this situation I think the rule most be changed.
My thoughts:
1. When these tires are encountered the chassis judge should be permitted
to check the back side of the tire.
2. The v.p., class judging should push for this rule change to solve the
problem.
3. All team captains should inform their chassis judge to come to them IF
they encounter these tires. Then the team captain can note on the
judging form the fact that these non-authenic tires were on said car, and
the max deduction was delivered.
4. The team captain should also inform the owner.
5. This might/should end the problem, and send the message to car owners
to get there tires with the program.
6. Final thought; If the chassis judge is embrassed to crawl around to check
out the back of a tire, then the team captain could do so. My reason for
this thought are the ladies involved in the judging program. I really don't
think to many of them would appreciate having to do what I just
suggested.

S-I,

You should copy and paste your list of suggestions and send them by e-mail to Joe Vicini. He is currently the Vice-President of class judging.

As for me I wouldn't have a problem with checking the back-side of a tire. Other ladies might not wish to do that. But I will bet they will if they are the chassis judge. The other women I have judged with wear shorts, jeans or slacks rather than dresses or skirts when they judge so that they can do whatever is required to judge the vehicles.

[windjamer]

SI I may have misunderstood your last comment,but just to be clear the judgeing schools I have attended for the last 8 years ALL recomend the chassis judge drop to one knee to judge the under carrage.Many of us carry a mouse pad ( Shoprats idea) for this purpose. You are right about the tires,they can be hard to see but I think most of us can recognize them or become suspicious and then a more carefull inspection is in order

[Shop Rat]

Originally Posted by windjamer

Many of us carry a mouse pad ( Shoprats idea) for this purpose.

To be honest I learned about using a mouse pad to kneel on from a guy I judged with one time. It seemed like such a good idea I did post it here for others. The ones that are like wetsuit material are great. They have a foam type back and material top that keeps the knee padded and dry in the case of hot pavement or wet weather. And they will roll up small enough to carry in a back pocket.