Oil in antifreeze?

[nic walker]

I noticed that my Select Sixty was running a little warm today and checked to see if my antifreeze was low.....it was not only low in the tank, but was chocolate bown colored....removed the radiator cap and the same.....checked the oil which is never low and it was a quart low. I have run ito this once before on another 3800 engine/car, and a dear once upon a friend had left the front cover nuts loose and there is an oil gallery close to the water pump channels and oil got in that way (this is also when I had oil leaks all over the engine.

This time it is on a car with 43000 miles and dry engine (no oil leaks anywhere).....can someone give me some suggestions on what repair to attempt 1st. please? I can replace the front cover gaskets and water pump + timing gear chain etc). but I am not sure that is the problem as there is nopthing loose or leaking.....what else can it be and how to diagnosis please?

Thanks,

Nic

[Greg Ross]

There are really only the two areas in the engine where coolant channels and lube oil galleries are in immediate proximity, that's cylinder heads and I think you'd have to have a cracked head to allow mixing. And the other is the front cover/ water pump where you've had experience previously.
What have you got for oil pressure?
More common failure is a head gasket and then you get coolant drawn into the combustion chamber and steam out the exhaust-that's really obvious.
Guess it makes sense, oil pressure will always be higher then the cooling system pressure so any cross boundry leak is going to be the oil migrating into the coolant side. I wouldn't recommend a cooling system pressure test since you don't want glycol in the oil otherwise you'll be in for total disassembly and all new bearings.
I guess the place to start is the front cover gasket/ seal job, get the cooling system flushed and see what comes of it. Mileage wise the timing chain and water pump shouldn't need replacing but if you're taking it apart anyway.....
When you figure this out I'll be most interested, I just landed an '88 home with 42,000 miles on it.

[CHAS1]

How about the intake manifold gasket???
I had a coolant leak in that area and it was running down the front of the motor over the water pump.Fortunately it was not running inside the motor.

[johnemac]

Do not know the vehicles history but maybe a prior owner put a radiator stop-leak additive that just showed up in the coolant tank?

[harry yarnell]

Are you sure it's oil in the coolant?
As for coolant getting into the oil sump and ruining bearings, I don't think so; at least for any length of time.
I do alot of Northstar headgasket repairs, and believe me, alot of coolant gets into the sump before the owner fesses up to a problem; and the bearings are fine...not that this is good, you understand...

[nic walker]

Thanks everyone for the replies - appreciated...

Greg - good to hear from you and congrats on the low miles 88 .

I have had this car since about 37000 miles and I do not put many miles a year on it. I took it from under cover about 4 months ago and this year has been a little different (put about a 1000 + miles on it - I checked everything (oil & anti freeze) about 1000 miles ago and it was fine. I recall seeing the temperature gauge 1 bar over 12:00 about a week ago and then 2 bars over 12:00 yesterday when I started this thread. Upon initial investagation I did not see any oil leaks topside....I am going out in a few minutes and get down on the gravel (#57 rock and it hurts) and check underside for leaks or anything unusual. If I don't see anything I am going to proceed as Greg Ross suggests above and seal the front end on the engine.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated ....thanks,

Nic

[Ronnie]

Any signs of more steam than usual coming out of the exhaust pipe. What you are describing is the symptoms of a bad head gasket. Overheating is one of the symptoms if combustion gasses are getting into the cooling system. I hope I'm wrong in thinking that. Compression check might confirm a bad head gasket but does not completely rule it out.

[nic walker]

Hey Folks,,,

Been out messing arond with the cars....both the 91 and the Select Sixty (S/S is the problem child) doe the same...following:

*Neither of the cars have any engine oil leaks....dry

*smoke a tiny tiny tiny bit (light gray) for about 30 to 60 seconds

*then smoke the light gray for a bout 3 minutes I am guessing both a little at idle and puff out some smoke when I goose them or rev them up

*after 3 to 4 or thereabout minutes both cease smoking period....

So can I discount a cracked cylinder head please?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Nic

[sfair]

Another possibility...it could be transmission fluid in the coolant with a leaky transmission cooler in the radiator tank.

[nic walker]

Ahhh yes sfair....thanks for the suggestion and it would definitly be a possiblility....if it were not that the car is down about a quart of engine oil in an engine that has never leaked or used oil - has 42 or 43 000 miles on it.....thanks for the suggestion however

Nic

[Greg Ross]

Nic,
Starting either car "cold" you're going to get water vapor until the engine has fully warmed up. Suggest you get out for a run and with the engine at operating temperature have a look again for tailpipe steam when "You Goose It".
My inclination is that if you've got a "blown head gasket" you would not have the amount of oil you're describing in the expansion tank. And I would not expect sudden oil consumption with a "gone" head gasket either.
I cannot think of anywhere around the intake, intake manifold, or heads where you'd get cross contamination of the Oil getting into the Glycol. Seems the most likely would have to be the engine front cover. There's no seal involving Oil galleries shared with the Water Pump so it would have to be the front cover.
I would also suggest at whatever point you get to the bottom of this problem you should be doing some manner of de-greasing of the cooling system. Oil coating I suspct is going to reduce the effeciency of the radiator. But that's a problem for later on.

[nic walker]

Thanks Greg...you are building my confidence up that it is the front cover. I actually let the S/S get up to operationg condition or temp gauge to 12:00 and was goosing it with no smoke/steam. I let the car run while I was starting and playing with the other car or the 91. I will drive it tomorrow when I round up parts and check it on the road but I am beginning to feel it is the cover....just bugs me with the low miles. I will post the outcome....will probably be a week as I am going to take it to a shop where we will work on it on the side at night.

Thanks again,

Nic

[sfair]

If it really is engine oil or transmission fluid, it does not take long for it to separate and float to the top in your coolant recovery tank.
In your original post, you did not mention if this was the case.