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Thread: New Enclave takes new oil

  1. #1
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    New Enclave takes new oil

    I recently purchased a 2011 Enclave and while reading the manual attempting to figure out all the new electronic stuff, I discovered that it "required" a new oil.

    dexos is what GM call it and a little research on the internet indicates its formulation is different enough that the API will be using the designation "SN" for this oil. ILSAC grades it "G5"

    In both cases this is one designation higher than the present standard for the best (non-synthetic) oil.

    Information on the internet suggest this oil will not be readily available at retail outlets until spring. In the mean time GM seems to have the upper hand with statements like this in the owners manual.........
    "Failure to use the recommended engine oil or equivalent can result in engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty"

    I don't know it it was intentionally done in conjunction with the oil change but they also changed the oil filter. Earlier 3.6 V6 engines used various versions of the PF61 filter with a 13/16 thread. The 2011 engine in my car uses a PF63 (which I cannot find) which has 22mm threads.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Obtaining dexos oil should not be a problem when the time for an oil change comes about. The big deal in my mind about this is the fact that GM by licensing the product name and maybe even aspects of the formula for the product is cutting themselves in for a chunk of the maintenance pie even if it is not being done by one of their dealers.

    More info on dexos (yes, it is properly spelled in all lower case)

    "Shell is an oil supplier licensed to manufacture and market authentic dexosTM full synthetic engine oil. GM requires dexosTM all for Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC vehicles starting with the 2011 model year and, with backwards compatibility, is a good choice for previous model year vehicles. Shell offers Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate DurabilityTM SAE 5W-30 full synthetic engine oils under the dexosTM license. According to GM, the benefits of using dexosTM includes improved fuel economy, better engine protection and reduced emissions. More specifically, the dexosTM specification provides enhanced performance in the areas needed by GM engine technology. Additional benefits of using Shell products include: Pennzoil Platinum provides unsurpassed engine cleansing and protection for better performance*†, and Quaker State Ultimate DurabilityTM provides unsurpassed engine protection from friction-related wear†. GM's dexosTM specification is designed to offer a slate of advantages over the requirements of GM's previous specifications, including improved levels of wear protection, engine cleanliness, fuel economy, corrosion protection, sludge control and aeration control. Shell is leading the industry. Others are talking about dexosTM. Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate DurabilityTM are already dexosTM - approved in the popular SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade."


    Pennzoil and Quaker State are GM DEXOS Approved!! : Orange Line Oil is an Affordable Oil Distributor offering Oil Wholesale Pricing

    On the filter, the PF63 is the same as a WIX 57045. The filter is also used on various Dodge, Jeep, Mitsubushi vehicles w/ 3.7L Engines (09-11)

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim_Edwards; January 7th, 2011 at 13:23.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    I think we need some clarification........... the article I posted a link to indicated that dexos was not a synthetic. (we may also need some official clarification on what a synthetic actually is..... as many oils today have synthetic properties at what point does an oil qualify.)

    Today I was in the Target auto department and they had the Shell oil that was rated "SN" for less than $3.00 a quart which leads me to assume it is not synthetic.

    I usually wait until around 10,000 miles to shift to synthetic (Mobil-1) but have not seen any documentation that says there is a problem with switching earlier.

    Jim on your oil filter comments..... my concern is if you had an engine problem would the dealer point finger at a non AC filter? I have been reading lots of post on the Englave forum and one owner did have an engine problem and said the filter (non AC) was restricting oil flow.

    While none of us want or expect a problem with a new vehicle, things happen and a dealer that trys to shift the blame does not help with the problem.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    From what I found several weeks ago, the "Dexos" designation has been known about for about a year or so. The article I found said that Mobil and Shell were (at the time of the article) the only ones to license the use of Dexos oil, as the others can claim their oil is "Dexos compliant" (or similar wording), so they don't have to pay the licensing fees. As noted, the new API and Euro designations are up one notch. As I understand, we now have it in our bulk oil tanks, so availability should not be an issue . . . especially if you use the OLM to determine your oil change intervals.

    There is also a Dexos ATF, too, which might well supercede Dexron VI, but I'll have to find out about that. With the intro of Dexron VI, instead of GM licensing the product, they turned that over to the chemical companies which supplied the specific additives to make Dexron VI what it was, rather than GM itself handling the licensing activities.

    In ANY event, the necessary Dexos oil and such should be readily available by the time your new Enclave would need any of them.

    On the issue of oil filters, during warranty periods, it's always best to use the particular OEM's brand of oil filters . . . just in case. No doubt, ACDelco has an oil filter cross for the noted non-GM engines, so just finding one might be the only issue.

    Of course, you could run all of the quesitions about oil and filters by the selling dealer's service manager AND parts depts. I mention "Selling Dealer" as many usually will give you one free oil change, the first one, with a new vehicle purchase. The oil used should be compliant with what is recommended for the particular vehicle . . . even if it might be Mobil 1 synthetic.

    Remember, too, that Mobil 1 has been factory-fill for Corvettes for many years. Plus many Cadillad CTS models. If it notes "Mobil 1" on the oil filler cap, that's what it should have come with.

    I recall the prior recommendations of not using a synthetic oil on a new engine, letting things "get friendly" inside the motor before using synthetic oil. After all, break-in is "controlled initial wear", after which synthetic oils would minimize future wear. In more modern times, machining is much more accurate, piston skirts usually have some sort of anti-friction coating, oil control via the rings and valve seals is much more controlled, etc. so it might not be quite the issue it was 20 years ago. On my company truck (6.0L V-8 w/50K), the OLM light came on at about 12K. I checked the oil and it was still above the top hole in the dipstick--it sees mostly highway miles at legal speeds with the cruise control, but WOT can be used several times/day to get to that speed OR in passing situations out in the country.

    I know you'll like the Enclave. The new oils are just one small part of the ownership experience.

    Enjoy!
    NTX5467

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Willis, you should have been a salesman, you make it sound so enjoyable.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Congrats on the new ride Barney, the Enclave is a beautiful ride.

    Pics?
    http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/r...3at90638AM.png

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Looks like this thread deserves the interjection of a bit of common sense.

    First the word "synthetic" as applied to lubricants does not mean "artificial." It alludes to the synthesizing of properties of the lubricant. In other words there is nothing in a quart of "synthetic" oil, aka lubricant, that is not derived from crude oil, i.e.; it's still 100% oil. What does is the objective of synthesizing do? Basically the objective is to reduce the gelling and/or varnishing common with natural oil and/or to reduce the lubricants tendency to run off of components. In this country Amsoil holds the majority of patents regarding synthesized lubricants.

    Filters do their job based upon the smallest of particles they can trap. This is expressed in micron size allowed to pass through the filtering medium. The brand of filter has nothing to do with whether a given filter size and configuration is more suitable for a given application than another. Virtually all automotive filter producers have more than one grade of filter in the same identical mechanical package.

    Now we come to metallurgy and synthesized lubricants making it possible for a given engine producer to actually reduce cost of product by using softer alloys in various rotating assemblies. With all due respect to the issue of the thread, GM has long pushed this envelope to its extreme and this may well be representative of a repeat of their legacy with origins in the 1970s. If they can figure out a way to reduce the cost of any portion of the engine by a few cents they will do it. Even at the risk of customer dissatisfaction.

    In terms of attempting to trap routine maintenance business for themselves and/or their dealers via threats of warranties being voided, that issue was settled years ago by legislation that fundamentally prevents such an action. Obviously GM is still attempting to play head games with its customers. I suspect GM would be very hard pressed to actually substantiate dexos is significantly superior to other similar lubricants, even with respect to potentially extending the life of engines they produce. I suspect a real analysis of comparing two identical engines with different lubricants would more than likely reveal little or no wear differences or would point to the fact components worn out of tolerance did so because of softer metals.

    From my view, GM has successfully given me a reason not to purchase one of their products as it would appear they are up to their same old crap that brought about issues with 350 engines in 1979, the 350 diesel conversion attempts, and their experiments with active cylinder reduction.

    Jim
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    I was at Pep Boys auto store last night and saw no "DEXOS" marked on any oil brand anywhere on the bottles !
    Perhapps I am looking for this new designation too soon ?

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverghost View Post
    I was at Pep Boys auto store last night and saw no "DEXOS" marked on any oil brand anywhere on the bottles !
    Perhapps I am looking for this new designation too soon ?
    I wouldn't expect that any of the volume retailers are going to buy into this GM dexos nonsense anytime soon. There simply are not enough GM produced vehicles with the alleged requirement in the hands of consumers and may not be for years to come. Not the stuff that appeals to volume retailers!

    I found this article to be quite interesting though now three months old.
    Chevron, Citgo Pass on Dexos

    Jim
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    I barely saw the "E-word" as in "emissions" mentioned. John Deere and most Diesel Engine manufacturers are introducing a new oil in preparation for FINAL TIER IV requirements in 2013. Assuming there has to be similar regs for passenger vehicles.

    We sell lots of "John Deere Plus 50" which is now "Plus 50 II" (required on "FINAL TIER IV") to all brands including OTR Trucks.
    What we do is something a GM dealer can't or won't do.Which is get off our rear and take it their doorstep at a competitive price in bulk.

    Unfortunately The "E" word still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth from the 70's debacle .
    JD FINAL TIER IV engines will have "zero" emissions with better economy.

    They recently broke a long time fuel economy record at Nebraska Tests. The previous record holder was the JD 630 Diesel (2 cylinder) circa late 40's.
    Last edited by RICK YOUNG; January 8th, 2011 at 14:15.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Quote Originally Posted by RICK YOUNG View Post
    I barely saw the "E-word" as in "emissions" mentioned. John Deere and most Diesel Engine manufacturers are introducing a new oil in preparation for FINAL TIER IV requirements in 2013. Assuming there has to be similar regs for passenger vehicles.

    We sell lots of "John Deere Plus 50" which is now "Plus 50 II" (required on "FINAL TIER IV") to all brands including OTR Trucks.
    What we do is something a GM dealer can't or won't do.Which is get off our rear and take it their doorstep at a competitive price in bulk.

    Unfortunately The "E" word still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth from the 70's debacle .
    JD FINAL TIER IV engines will have "zero" emissions with better economy.

    They recently broke a long time fuel economy record at Nebraska Tests. The previous record holder was the JD 630 Diesel (2 cylinder) circa late 40's.
    I think when we get right down to it, GM is only interested in profit enhancement from any means they can achieve it, whether with or without merit or regulatory support. There is no question that a more efficient engine regardless of its nature will be more environmentally friendly and most certainly better lubricants make any internal combustion engine more efficient. GM is simply attempting to snipe off a profit from the use of a trademark or trade name for a product that is already available under a variety of other names from many lubricant industry sources.

    The guy that was put in charge at GM by the Feds was a master at deceptive charge creation when he ran AT&T and it should not be considered unusual to see the same practices now permeating GM. My personal thoughts on this is don't buy GM anything and let them find out just how wise this attempt at deception really is. GM does not hold the exclusive right to anything other than the name "dexos" the formulations of lubricants from various producers meeting the specification requirements for these lubricants are their own and do not belong to GM.

    Jim
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    There may be another reasion for the special oil it that GM has been having a problem with E-85 Fuel washing regular oils off the cylinder walls,, we use to run a Speedway motorcycle that ran on 100% metheniol,, and had to use a castor based oil or it would scuff the cylinder walls, seeze pistons.. Just a thought...

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    I believe that it is for wear improvement(less wear) and the longer oil changes.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Well . . . Dexos motor oil IS currently available in bulk as we have it that way, in one of our oil change oil tanks.

    I've not heard of any change in bearing metallurgy with the newer motor oils now available. Considering that GM has "verified" their engine timing chains for 200K miles, it would not make sense to save a few cents on less expensive bearings that would wear out sooner, even with the upgraded motor oils.

    Rest assured that EVERYBODY plays the "juggle the cents" game when they spec parts for vehicles--even Toyota. With the same basic money to spend, where and how much is spent on particular items can vary, just what criteria management is willing to accept for price vs estimated failure rate. Honda might spend more on their engines, but make up for that added expense in other areas of the vehicle (as interior seat fabrics, not just type of material, but "gauge" of the material too, for example, or a less expensive brand of tires). As GM and other respected import brands use the same suppliers (in many cases), one manufacturer might accept a higher estimated failure rate for a slightly less expensive price. Certainly, when we think of spending a little more money, it's on an individual case basis . . . on GM or any other OEM's side of things, that same decision could equate into millions of dollars additional profits . . . with will significantly cover the added warranty costs from replacements. ALSO . . . if nothing breaks, the dealers see NO work and NO cash flow from such breakages. Think Toyota dealers service/parts organizations live on oil changes and profits from new vehicle sales? Better check the back shop.

    To me, the issue of the Olds 350 diesels was more of misconceptions on the parts of the owners rather than specifically the fault of the product. I know of "little ole ladies" who had an Olds Delta 88 Diesel that broke crankshafts on the way to the grocery store, but of the ones I drove in C10 Silverados, bumping the governor in each lower gear (manually shifting the THM400) getting on the freeway DAILY, never a problem other than injection pumps at about 50K miles. But I wasn't trying to pull trailers either (a no-no), either. Back then, the distinction of "light duty" and "heavy duty" diesel was non-existent in the public's mind . . . just diesel, like farm tractors or OTR trucks. BUT also consider that the added EPA fuel economy of those diesels kept GM selling C20-30 454 trucks, too. And then there was the "little" 260 CID version that would run for well past 100K and keep on going (in the mid-size Cutlasses) . . . AND run quieter than the 5.7L diesels.

    Funny thing was that we heard people "cuss" the GM diesels (even the later 6.2L DDA-designed motors, from when Roger Penske was the controlling interest in DDA AND used these engines in his truck rental fleet vehicles), saying they were going to buy a Ford-IH diesel next time. Then I'd hear some Ford owners talking and they were "cussin'" the Ford diesels they owned for, interestingly, some of the same reasons. Just an observation I watched happen.

    The Dexos situation is not really much different than GM publishing lists of "accepted" or "approved" motor oils for their engines. This has been going on for a good while, just as the similar list of gasolines. SO, if GM might "highly recommend" the use of a particular brand (in the case of Dexos, "theirs") of motor oil OR one from their list of approved motor oils, it's really not much different. The OTHER thing is that any OEM which submits vehicles for EPA (or similar in other countries) emission and fuel economy certification, they HAVE to recommend/require that you use the same viscosity of motor oil and approved motor fuels in order to maintain emissions and fuel economy compliance as the vehicle ages. After all, the OEM is on the hook for something like 100K miles (in many cases) for emissions control compliance issues. Really NOT much different than any camshaft manufacturer requiring a customer to also use their brand of valve lifter in order that the camshaft's basic warranty coverage would be utilized. In other words, if you're an OEM, you know the quality and such of the parts YOU produce and use in your products, BUT you're not going to pay for an engine failure due to an oil filter that is not your brand of filter or can prove than an unapproved lubricant was used by the customer . . . are you. Litigatory legislation or not, that's common sense.

    Unfortunately, the use of the word "synthetic" with respect to motor oils was decided in the courts about a decade or so ago. Mobil vs Castrol, as I recall. Castrol won. Be that as it may. One thing that was not determined was how much "synthetic" oil stocks must be in the "blended synthetic" oils in order to use that designation, nor what the dividing line is between "blended synthetic" and "full synthetic". But this gets into a much more involved discussion of motor oil "base stock groups" and the particular blend in the additive package of a particular motor oil/lubricant.

    The real advantage to synthetic motor oil is its capability to pretty much flow instantly after a cold start (i.e., lubricate things quicker). This, ultimately, can affect cold start emissions to a certain degree as it would take more fuel to run the motor as it ran more sluggishly as "other" motor oils make their way through the various friction surfaces of the motor. Not to forget ultimate fuel economy. In other cases where the vehicle might see somewhat extended "HD use" which could elevate the oil temperature, the use of and OEM specification of synthetic motor oil might also permit the OEM to not have to have an external engine oil cooler on the vehicle . . . with less possibility of leaks for something that's not there. Did they save some money? Did they save some future possible warranty costs? Yes on both counts. Might they save the customer money as the vehicle ages and the oil cooler items might fail and cause serious engine damage? Yes, too. Is the customer paying for these things with the price of more expensive motor oil? Yes. So, it seems that "how" you talk about such things might depend upon your particular vantage point . . . of which there are many. To each their own.

    I recall in the middle 1990s that S-10 V-6 engines had a remote oil filter mounting location and also an engine oil cooler. After so many miles, the lines would begin to seep/leak. Well past the warranty stages, too. About $100.00 for the pair, plus labor. I suspect that if GM could have spec'd Mobil 1 for that engine/body application to save $50.00 factory cost/vehicle, they probably would, but the customers might not have complied and other problems might have been more prevalent later on. Again, different ways to consider that situation.

    During that same timeframe, the oil cooler lines on the full-size pickups had issues of rubbing together at a retention point and leaking. Those engines had external oil coolers on them too.

    To me, the real issue is not whether or not GM has a new trademarked motor oil and automatic transmission fluid, but whether these newer products will replace prior products on the auto supply shelves, making it harder to find "SL" grade oils and such. Or if the current makers of "SL" motor oil will later supercede their current products to use similar base stocks and additive packages in ALL of their oils to more readily match what they're selling as Dexos trademarked/licensed or Dexos-compliant motor oil products. In a few brands, I've already seen this start to happen, which could further impact those of us with older, flat tappet engines.

    ONE thing I became aware of recently is that Cummins still uses "flat tappets" in many of their diesels rather than the "roller valve lifters" that other diesel makers and many automotive OEMS use. Therefore, looking for a motor oil with a Cummins approval might be another alternative of motor oils for more vintage vehicles.

    Enjoy!
    NTX5467

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    GM Techlink short article . . .

    The New GM dexos Engine Oil Specification - GM Techlink

    www.gmdexos.com Has a list of licensed products, which might later expand with time.


    NTX5467
    Last edited by NTX5467; January 9th, 2011 at 01:20.

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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Thanks Willis for your input. I always enjoy your prospective.

    My knee jerk post was in response to my not being aware of this change in oil requirements before making the purchase.....had I known I would have still made the purchase, it was just a shock. I receive several automotive magazines each month and had not seen any articles on this change by GM

    API & ILSAC have already established the new rating in their menue, and if the oil companies want to sell oil for GM cars, this oil will be everywhere within months.
    For me it is not a major issue as I will switch to Mobil 1

    I suspect GM wanted to make the formulation change and did this to speed the change over by the oil companies and associations that do the ratings.
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Thanks for the update and kind words, Barney. Here's an article which has some good explanations of what's going on . . .

    MOTOR Magazine Article | MOTOR Information Systems

    Also notice that the date on the particular newsletter is "January 12, 2010", plus the "rollout date" listed in the article.

    I have seen ACDelco-brand oil, 5W-30 which is "Dexos Approved". Although we have that in one of our lube rack oil tanks at one location, the other location doesn't have it just yet. Also on the case is "Synthetic Blend".

    In looking at the bobistheoilguy website, I noticed that the Moderator had consolidated several "Dexos-bashing" threads into one. I looking through them, it appears that some might not be fully receptive to "change", or consider any "change" to be "for change-sake"--be that as it may.

    As mentioned "somewhere", Dexos is a world-wide lube oil standard (for vehicle engines, in this case). If you look at almost any bottle of oil at the auto supply or mass-market retailer, you'll see many different markings, symbols, and standards listed on it. Some are USA-API, with others being European and Asian in nature.

    Historically, USA consumers have been seeing oils rated by the API organization, for many decades. The API runs tests on particular motors to evaluate specific areas of the engine oil's capabilities. As I recall, there were many different engines used for particular areas where the particular engine family seemed to have problems which were sensitive to the oil's chemistry and capabilities. ONLY when all of the performance criteria were met in all cases did the particular oil receive a "PASS" score for the particular API rating. In prior times, these were like "MS" (motor severe), for example. We knew to look for that if we wanted the best motor oils in a particular brand . . . although most met it anyway.

    In later years, future requirements would not be addressed by the older API "MS" designation, which is when the current labelling scheme of "SA" (S=spark ignition) with "A" being the particular reference level. For diesels, they were "CA" (C=compression ignition) and such. As newer standards were devised and met, the second letter was increased to the next-higher letter in the alphabet, which could also be followed by additional-defining numbers and symbols. Most recently, for MY 2010, we were at "SM", with MY 2011 being something higher, "SN" in many cases.

    During these earlier times, USA vehicle engines were generally larger, slower-turning, lower-stressed engines than those powering passenger cars and light trucks in other parts of the world. ILSAC is another oil-rating entity, whose home region is generally populated with smaller, higher specific output engines . . . which tend to have some different design orientations and features to support their intended uses, which also afffects the oils they need to live long and prosper.

    Whereas OEM vehicle manufacturers generally let the API handle the oil testing and rating, in Europe the individual OEMs are responsible for that. If a particular motor oil manufacturer wants to sell oil for a particular brand and type of vehicle, they must submit it to the particular OEM for testing and "approval" for the particular manufacturer's oil specs. This is why you'll also see the listing of these approvals on the back of the oil bottle. Approvals which are KEY to warranty coverage, if needed! It is also somewhat common for one oil to have approvals from several different OEMs. If you look at Rotella T, or other diesel (primary use) motor oils, you'll see similar approvals from various diesel engine manufacturers, which means it's fine to use that oil in their engines.

    In addition to these things, there's the "Starburst" symbol for "Energy Conserving" motor oils, plus the "ratings circle" with the API service letters in it, plus the additional wording about the particular oil also meeting prior service levels' specs.

    Therefore, with all of these things on oil bottles, it can become somewhat confusing to many consumers as to which oil they need to purchase for their vehicles, whether type or viscosity. And these things could change between the USA and other world-wide market areas!

    We've read about the possibly confusion at the gas pumps if E15 is added to the mix of available gasolines, yet not all vehicles can used E15. Gasoline retailers don't want to be blamed for vehicular damages resulting from mis-fueling by "consumers"--a valid concern.

    To me, with Dexos being a world-wide oil spec, this can give the owner of MY 2011 and later General Motors vehicles ONE thing to look for on the oil bottle AND be confident that it will be correct for their vehicle. No worries about API or ILSAC or other standards, or incorrect viscosities . . . just look for Dexos 1 (gasoline), Dexos 2 (diesel) and you're done. Either "Dexos Approved" or "Dexos Compliant". "Approved" meaning that the particular oil brand is licensed to use "Dexos" name with "Compliant" meaning "not licensed".

    Many have perceived the reason for "Dexos" is based purely on license fees which GM will collect, but I highly suspect (after reading the linked article noted above) that while money from license fees might be a side issue, it's not the main reason for the GM "Dexos" specs.

    The linked article mentioned "robust" in the description of the GM Dexos specs. In oil-speak, this usually appears to mean something like "hearty oil base stocks", "hearty oil additive packages", and "a high Total Base Number (TBN)". Generally, the higher the TBN of a motor oil, the longer useage life it has (think extended oil change intervals) before the acidity of the motor oil decreases the TBN to about "2", when it might well have begun at "7" and above.

    Therefore, when considering many things, the reason for "Dexos" being a new oil spec for MY 2011+ General Motors vehicles is not specifically about income from license fees, but more for a better and more confident ownership experience for owners of MY 2011+ GM vehicles world-wide.

    We've had the Dexron family of automatic transmission fluids for GM-specific vehicles since 1968. Ford has their own similar Ford-specific atfs, too, just as MANY imports brands do. Chrysler has had several progressive atf specs since the early 1990s for their automatic transmissions/transaxles, too . . . which if not followed, could lead to an early death for the components. Similar things for many import brand power steering fluids, too. Now that GM is now expanding this brand-specific orientation to motor oil is not very much different from what we've had for decades.

    Sorry for the length.

    Just some thoughts,
    NTX5467
    Last edited by Rawja; January 13th, 2011 at 06:31.

  18. #18
    Senior Member sintid58's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    By the way congrtulations on the new Enclave. What color did you get and how about a picture.

    Sid Rollings, BCA 35109, AACA 991083, ROA 10960, BPG 2156 / 2012 Dodge Ram Laramie Longhorn / 2001 Ford Focus Wagon / 1990 Maui Blue Reatta / 1970 Skylark / 1970 Riviera /1965 GMC Hot Rod / 1958 Special / 1955 Special / 1929 Buick 29-27 / Company Car 2013 Freightliner Cascadia

  19. #19
    '39 Buick Team Member Dynaflash8's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Seems like another good reason not to buy a new Buick, something I have said I will not do again since the day they stopped making the Park Avenue in 2005 and started building Toy Carsl
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Reatta Man's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Yep, this, unfortunately, is what this forum usually degenerates into. Someone buys a new Buick with pride in their purchase, and I just wait for the "I'll never buy a new Buick because......" comment to follow.

    THIS is one of the things (attitudes) killing the BCA. ALL new Buicks and Buick owners should be welcomed in here. This is NOT a "Bash Buick" forum.

    BTW, Barney, CONGRATS! Those Enclaves seem to REALLY be catching on; I see them everywhere.
    Joe
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  21. #21
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    I was not quite ready but the 2005 Rendezvous started giving us a problem that the dealer could not find. It was not extremely serious but the mileage dropped and there was an engine management problem that they could not find. Plus the wife was ready to trade.

    If there is a reason not to buy a new car it is the electronics. These cars are so computer packed, the only people that can do repairs are major shops with all the proper test equipment and the people that know how to use them.

    I hate to say it but in the future, you may not want to buy a car that is out of warrenty..... first you must find someone that can fix it then they must find the part, and finally you may need to take out a loan to pay the bill.

    Attached is a photo of the 2011 Enclave CXL the wife picked out.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Larry Schramm's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    New vehicles are very complex because of customer demands, government regulations, emission standards, and......the list goes on. Some of the vehicles have over 30 different modules (micro computers) that talk on a serial data line / network. Lost of communication between modules and customer interfaces. No more easy low tech fixes.
    Larry Schramm

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  23. #23
    Senior Member Thriller's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Is that the Red Jewel Barney? I think so, but I haven't looked at Enclave colours in a while. That's our Rainier's colour. There's a bit of pearl in with the red.
    Derek Thille
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  24. #24
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    Great color choice on the new Enclave!!

    With all due respect, we've been hearing the "I'll never buy another new car because . . . " dialogue since the first electronic ignition systems in the 1970s . . . and things have become much more complex since then. But, reality seems to be that as other brands of vehicles have the same or highly similar electronic equipment as newer Buicks do, then these same people might also be putting themselves OUT of the new vehicle market--period. Or even used vehicle market, too!

    For anybody afraid of electronics and mini-computers running vehicle systems . . . do NOT look at the GM Parts database illustration for the wiring harness on the new Chevy Volt! If you think the gas motor cars are complex . . . Even the "mild hybrid" Chevy Malibu has an hvac system for the batteries! Be that as it may . . .

    For some reason, the suspected "cottage industry" of remanufacturing pre-1975 USA vehicles never has really materialized. Adding a few upgrades as fuel injection, better brake linings, building flexfuel compatibility in, tire pressure monitoring, etc. should be reasonably easy to do, plus "theatre lighting" for when you close the doors at night (sourced from the street rod operatives). Ultimate price could well be $25K, possibly.

    Just some thoughts . . .
    NTX5467

  25. #25
    Senior Member Rawja's Avatar
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    Re: New Enclave takes new oil

    If there is a reason not to buy a new car it is the electronics. These cars are so computer packed, the only people that can do repairs are major shops with all the proper test equipment and the people that know how to use them.
    I'm genuinely SHOCKED to hear you say that Barney. That's the same bad rap they almost universally gave Reattas back in the day.

    Beautiful Enclave BTW. Your wife picked the best color for 'em IMO.
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