73' Grand Ville vs. my old 72' Electra

[Shaffer]

As mentioned, I finally got the Grand Ville home and I am really pleased with the car. It reminds me very much of my old 72' Electra- not only in the styling, but the color combinations as well. The only difference color wise is that this car has a black vinyl top, instead of the "saddlewood" colored top that my 72' Electra had. One thing I find interesting about the 71-74 Grand Ville is that they have the same rear roofline as the Buick Electra, Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight and Cadillac DeVille/Calais, but have the shorter wheelbase, but still slightly longer than the Catalina/Bonneville (which have a roofline/wheelbase like the LeSabre, Centurion, Biscayne, Bel-Air, Impala, Caprice, Delta 88 & Delta 88 Royale). Many of the interior parts are the same as my Electra- which is neat. It is like I am riding in my Electra at times. It is not an "oddly" optioned car, like many of these cars, as it has the following options: A/C, power windows, power locks, AM radio and tilt wheel. According to the owners manual it lacks these options: cornering lights, FM radio 8-track, cruise, rear window defog, auto climate control, guage package & air suspension - I think I am missing a few. I think it has the power trunk release, but I am not sure. It also has map lights on the overhead dome light, which I think was also optional.

Some things are interesting about this car in comparison with my 72' Electra. It has the wide rocker panel lower mouldings - which was optional on the 72 Electras, so I am wondering if it was standard or an option on the Grand Villes as well. Also, the Grand Villes have courtesy lights on the lower door panels- which is something that Electras lack (at least my 72' as well as other 72s I have seen). One would think that the Electra would have these before the Grand Ville would. Anyway, here is a link to a few photos of the car. It will look better when I get larger, white wall tires installed. The current tires are much too small for this car. Also are seperate photos of my old Electra. I want to thank everyone again for all of their replies to my questions. Everyone is always very helpful and always a lot of interesting conversations here. That is what makes this site so great!

http://capriceestatewagon.myphotoalb...album01&page=3

[Shaffer]

Now, Electra attachment.

[JohnO]

I checked out the pictures and it looks like you made a real good deal. Assuming the tranny is OK, it should be a real price performer. Even if you have to sink another $1K into it for a transmission your still ahead. The body looks solid and from what I could see the interior looks good.

So, what's happening with the Caprice? My only advice to you on that one is not to let it become a "money-pit". If you play your cards right you can get alot of "satisfaction" as well as "value" out of these old cars. I always buy complete. I know it has the 396, a nice interior pattern and with a bit of work it could be real nice, but at the end of the day it is still a 4 door and demand is not that great.

Good luck with the Pontiac!

[Shaffer]

Thanks John. I think I made a good deal as well. I paid $1500 for my 72 Electra about 4 years ago and it was in the same condition. Actually, the Pontiac has better paint and vinyl top, but the Buick had ZERO rust, where the Pontiac has a bit just starting on a couple of areas, but nothing bad at all. No rust around the windows, but a bit on one lower fender and quarter, but the floors, frame and trunk are completely rust free. The interior is very good, but I think the cloth part of the seats have been recovered, unless Pontiac used different cloth patterns on the 73's because I have seen other 73 Grand Villes, with a different cloth pattern. This seems a bit to "plain" for the Grand Ville cloth, so I think it was recovered. Not a big deal- as the still look fine and I may have the original style cloth installed a couple of years down the road. May be original- who knows. Carpeting like new. There is one very small crack just starting on the dash pad. I hope it does not quickly spread. Is there anything I can do to slow/stop this crack?

About the Caprice- it was a "money put" as soon as I paid the $2500 for it. I bought the car in good faith- thinking it only needed the interior and body work. Ran fine until we got it home and the engine had knock. Now- not only am I going to have to pay for a engine rebuild, but interior and body work as well. I really like this car though. The body work will not be too bad, because the rust is minor and the trunk pan, floors and frame are still totally rust free. Interior is not too bad either, but will need new carpeting at least. Seats are not perfect, but still have a couple of years of use still with them. I have looked for a 67-70 Caprice 4dr (prefer 4-doors) for years, with no luck, so was lucky to find one locally, especially with the options this one has. I hope to have the engine rebuilt by the end of the year. Next- I will work on the body and interior, but not a big rush on that. I just want to get it on the road again. Thanks again.

[Shaffer]

One thing I have been meaning to ask- does anyone know if the wide rocker panel moulding was optional on the 71-73 LeSabres and Centurions? I did not pay any attention before, but the 1971-1976 Chevrolet Caprice's all have the wide rocker panel mouldings.

[Centurion]

Shaffer, regarding the wide rocker panel moldings, they were not available at all on the 1971 Buicks. Buick seemed to opt for a very simple, clean look with minimal brightwork on the '71 models, and I think that the division was unique in its decision not to offer a wide rocker molding. (If I am not mistaken, the Chevrolet wide molding was actually located a bit above the rocker panel, and the rocker was painted a flat black below the molding.)

Buick finally offered wide rocker moldings as a mid-year option on all full-size 1972 Buicks and Rivieras. These were then available through 1976 before the downsized models appeared in 1977.

My mother might be able to take a little credit for Buick's late decision to add the rocker panel moldings. We owned one of the first '71 Buicks delivered in Oregon, and the state uses sanding rock on icy roads and snowy mountain passes during the winter time. Because of the extreme tuck under of the lower bodysides of the full-size '71 - '76 GM cars, the front wheels kicked up sanding rock on the rocker panel areas. Within a week of the delivery of our new Buick, the lower front fenders behind the front wheel openings were literally sand-blasted from the sanding rock. This was not unique to Buicks; I have observed the same problem on Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles of the period.

My mother wrote a letter to Buick Motor Division in Flint about the problem. Initially, we were summoned to the local Buick dealership -- along with owners of other new full-size Buicks -- for photographs to be taken of the damage to the cars. We were then contacted by the Portland Zone Office, and met directly with Buick's Zone Manager. Buick agreed to repaint our Centurion below the bodyside paint stripe, but no other solution was offered. The Zone Manager reported that Buick had gone back to the test drivers at the GM Proving Grounds, and learned that the drivers had failed to report that the new cars would throw water onto the side windows of the cars when driven through pools of standing water. My mother pointed out that a wide rocker panel molding like the other divisions offered would help to protect the paint, and encouraged Buick to consider this idea.

Perhaps Buick decided to offer a wide rocker molding in response to complaints like my mother's. When we saw the wide moldings begin to appear on mid-year 1972 Buicks, we considered retrofitting our '71 with the wide moldings. Ultimately, we utilized some stainless and rubber flaps behind each of the wheels to minimize damage to the car's lower body surfaces. I removed the flaps when I had the car repainted in 1984, and you can be certain that I proceed very cautiously on gravel or sanded roads. In fact, I try to avoid unpaved surfaces altogether with the Centurion.

Interestingly, a running change was made to the rear fender skirts on the 1971 Electra 225's. The front tires threw rocks all the way to the leading edge of the fender skirts, and the later '71 fender skirts added a stainless molding to protect against damage. As you might guess, the design of Oldsmobile's rear wheel area during those years caused them to be especially susceptible to rock damage.

As a final note, I remember clearly that my parents stated at the time that the '71's were introduced that the more expensive car lines seemed to be more understated in terms of brightwork than some of the lower cost models. Even the Cadillac Calais used a very small rocker molding, although the DeVilles utilized a wider molding. The same can be said about Ford Motor Co., where the Ford LTD seemed decked out with far more brightwork than the elegant Lincoln Continental.

[Shaffer]

Thanks Centurion- that was very interesting reading. I had forgot that the mouldings were not on the earlier 71s. I think you are right about the mouldings on the 71-72 (newer) Caprice. If I recall, I think that the actual rocker panels on my 71 Caprice sedan were painted and the trim was just above that. I will see if I can find a photo of my old Caprice, or another early 70s Caprice. I will have to look on my Grand Ville to see it that trim goes all the way down and covers the rockers- now you have me wanting to know.

I know what you mean about the lower paint damage on these cars. If I recall, my old 72 Electra sedan had some paint chips there, but nothing too bad for 30 year old paint. My 73 Grand Ville is the same way- paint is good though, but the lower parts of these cars are curved under pretty good like you said. I have a photo of the right lower fender of my Grand Ville- which I will post on the attachment. Now that I recall- I think it has some sort of a small "mud flap" there on the lower front fenders, but I am guessing it is not original? I have no idea. Also agree about the 71-76 Oldsmobiles. The rear wheelwells on those cars really protrude out from the car.

Now- one last question and I am sure you will know. Where the lower door panel courtesy lights optional on the 71-72 Electras? Where they added in later years? As mentioned, the 1973 Pontiac Grand Villes have these lights, but my 1972 Electra did not, nor have any other 1973 Electras I have seen. I think that the Oldsmobile Ninety-Eights from 1971+ had these lights, but not sure. I am asking about the Electra, because I think I may have seen them on another Electra, but not sure. Not a big concern, but these things intrigue me about these cars.

[Shaffer]

In addition to my previous post- here is the one of the door lights I was referring to. This photo seems to not often work on the link, so I will post it here. I am also wondering if this is the same light that they use on the Cadillac and Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight- looks like it might be. If I am not mistaken, I think I have even seen the lower door lights on the early 70s Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale, but I may be wrong. Seems like the LeSabre and Centurion would also have this- that is why I was wondering if it was an option.

[Centurion]

Shaffer, the flaps behind the front tire of your Grand Ville were not a factory item. Many owners of the '71 through '76 GM full-size cars bought these at the local auto parts store or ordered them through J.C. Whitney. It seemed to be the only effective approach to protect the lower body paint on these cars. I suspect that you will find that the rocker moldings have some dulling due to rock damage.

To my knowledge, the door lamps were not offered on the 1971 and 1972 Electra 225's as standard or optional equipment. Beyond that, I'm not sure. Each division handled details differently at the time.

[Shaffer]

Thanks Brian. I was thinking that those flaps were not original. They looked aftermarket. I have not inspected that chrome closely yet, but when I looked at the photos, it looks like it has some rock specks.

Thanks for the information about the door lamps. I did not think I had seen any 71-72 Electras with the lights. I know my old 72 Electra did not have them. I was correct about the Oldsmobiles however- here is a 1973 Delta 88 convertible with the lamps on the doors- which appear to be the same on the Pontiacs. I am guessing GM used the same lights on them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...ssPageName=WDVW

And here is a 1972 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight that also appears to have them from what I can tell, but not 100% sure.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...ssPageName=WDVW

Thanks again!

[Shaffer]

OK- I found an old E-Bay link to a 71' Caprice 4dr. Ironically, this car is identical to my old 71 Caprice - which was even the same colors. The only difference is that my Caprice had the side protection strip option, as well as tilt wheel- which this car seems to lack.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...bayphotohosting

It appears as if the lower chrome moulding does not go over the rocker panels- which is what I was thinking. It has been over 4 years since I have sold my old 71' Caprice, so I really could not say for sure. It does go to the bottom however on the front of the front fenders and rear quarter panels. Also attached is a photo of the side of the car, as well as the auction link.

[rocketraider]

Tony- first, find out where that GrandVille came from. It looks and is optioned an awful lot like one a friend's dad had 10-12 years ago and sold for nearly nothing in an Alzheimer's episode. Does it perchance have a set of General AmeriTrac tires?

RE door courtesy lights. Those are an Oldsmobile design first used in 1964 and continuing thru 1976 on all the higher-line cars- Starfire/Jetstar I, Delta, 88 Royale, Ninety-Eight and Toronado. Matter of fact everything I own except the Hurst/Olds has them. The 74-76 Regency door lights are a little different, but the LS used these.

Pontiac used them only on GrandVilles. I've never seen them on any other Pontiac carline.

OTOH, Pontiac used a door reflector in 63-64 that found its way onto A-body Oldsmobiles in 1970. You'd be amazed at the corporate parts-bin raiding that went on back then.

[Shaffer]

Thanks Glenn for that information.

From what I have been able to gather, the Pontiac was manufactured in September of 1972 (was a very early 73 model obviously) and was a "demo" car until November of 1972, when the original owners bought the car, when it had 700 miles. I think that they bought it new from a dealer in Ohio, because I found a Ohio Pontiac dealers warranty paper in the car, but it is possible that they bought it new here and was driving up there and had the car serviced. I cannot recall the name, but it is in the glove box- I will check. I am guessing that they moved here to northeast Tennessee one year later in November 1973 (when title was re-issued as Tennessee) and the car has been here since. It had their same address on the TN title dated 1973. I am guessing that one winter in Ohio is why it has some of the minor rust that it has, because typically these cars originally from here do not have any rust- which my old 72' Buick Electra and 71' Oldsmobile Toronado was a prime example of. It is very minor though, so that is the good thing. Floors, frame and trunk are still 100% rust free. The owners of the car recently died, so the family had an estate auction of all of their belongings. The family did not want anything from what I understand. The guy I bought it from was the guy that bought it from the original owners family- he kept the car for about a month- until I bought it a few days ago. The car still had the 1973 Tennessee title- when they moved down here and had to get the TN title. The guy I bought it from said it still had bias-ply tires on it, so he had those SMALL Michelins installed on it- which I am going to change ASAP. I am not sure what size tires, but someone said that the "G-78 or H-78", which is what the car was originally equipped with, are now 225 75 15s.

Thanks again for the information on the door lamps.

[Shaffer]

Glenn- do you recall where the Grand Ville was from that you was mentioning? I have seen a few other 73 Grand Villes with this same color. If I am correct, I think it is called "burnished brown" according to the 73' Pontiac sales brochure. If you scoll down about 1/2 way on this page: http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seven...973/index.html , you will see another 73 Grand Ville the same color as mine, but this one has the "deluxe wheelcovers. The second car down on that page is my car, but it was sent in by the guy I bought the car from. I plan on sending in an updated photo with the larger whitewall tires to this site. I also discovered something new about the 73 Grand Villes. According to the sales brochure, there was a "Custom" option available- which adds thick cut-pile carpeting, (which is identical to the carpeting that was in my old 72' Electra 225 Custom) front seat back assist handles, rear lighters and upgraded interior fabrics- which my car has, except I am 99% sure that the seat fabrics have been recovered on my car. I was assuming this was all standard, but I guess not. I also attached an updated photo of my car on the attachment.

I am also wondering- did the "base" 71-73 Electras have loop-pile carpeting, or did they too have "cut-pile" carpeting like the Custom and Limited models?

[Shaffer]

Thanks Brian for verifying that information on the Buicks. I did finally read in my 1973 Pontiac brochure, that the lower door courtesy lights were optional on the Grand Ville, so they were not standard like I thought. Not sure if they were available on the Catalina or Bonneville though. I am going to look through the other brochure for that information.

I also found a bit more information concerning the lower door courtesy lights. While it was not available on some of the early 70s Electras, it was obviously at least optional (if not even standard) on the 1975 Electras. Here is a 1975 Electra, with lower door courtesy lights. Not the same as the Oldsmobile or Pontiac lights. Glenn- here is one of the Oldsmobile lights you were referring to and this is what you was talking about the Pontiac and Oldsmobile sharing the same lower door lights, because of you notice on this 1973 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale convertible (very nice) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...ssPageName=WDVW
that it has the exact same lower door lights as my 1973 Pontiac (see attachment). Odd that the top of the line Pontiac Grand Ville, Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight (perhaps even all of the 88s (I cannot recall what the 4drs / 2drs have, but at least the 88 Royale convertible) and Cadillacs offered lower door courtesy lights on the early 70s cars, but Buick did not seem to have it until 1975, but I guess like Brian (Centurion) said- they just added different "features" to different cars. I have also found it interesting that all of the early 70s Cadillacs and Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight (not sure about 88), did not offer the "custom cushioned" steering wheel like Pontiac and Buick (Chevrolet starting in 1973). The Cadillac and Oldsmobile 98 did have a "updgraded" looking wheel, with woodgrain on the actual wheel, but it was the harder material (if I am correct) which was the standard steering wheel on some of the early 70s GM cars- which was considered a "cheaper" material. I guess this was just another one of the things that they did differently.

Sorry for rambling again.

[Philippe Racicot]

Tony,
The "cheaper" steering wheel was also found on the 74-76 Buicks if you ordered the tilt and telescopic steering. 1974 was the first year for the telescopic steering in Buicks but it was already available in most other GM cars around 1965... The 1974 Buick telescopic wheel was the same as the one used in Cadilacs, it even had the same horn pad as the 71-73 Cadillacs with a different emblem. Driving a Buick with this option makes you wish it didn't have it!

As for the door courtesy/warning lights, while they they were available in other 60's GM cars, they were not seen in 60's Buicks.
Some Buicks (even the LeSabre) could have been ordered with them before 1975 but it was not very popular.
I thought they were standard on 1975 and newer Limiteds (I have never seen one that lacked the door C/W lights in Quebec) but less than half (only 41.5%) of the 1975 Electra Limited hardtop sedans produced had them, the other Limiteds had red reflectors instead. This is an inexpensive option that greatly impressed me when I was young, I still like it today and I don't understand why most Limiteds were ordered without them!

[Philippe Racicot]

Quote:

The Zone Manager reported that Buick had gone back to the test drivers at the GM Proving Grounds, and learned that the drivers had failed to report that the new cars would throw water onto the side windows of the cars when driven through pools of standing water.

This is a problem that wasn't corrected in the 71-76 period. In winter, the dirty water from the top of the wheelwells splashes in the lower corners of the windshield and in the outside rearview mirror area of the side windows. It seems to be worse on my 74 LeSabre than it was on my 75 and 76 Electras, probably because it lacks the chrome trim (and rubber piece) around the front wheelwells. Mud flaps are also a must on cars that are driven in winter!

[Shaffer]

Thanks for that information Philippe. I never did know that the "telescope" wheel was even optional on the 74-76 Electras. I remember my old 1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille had it and I never really knew why. To me, it seemed worthless, but I guess for someone with very long or very short arms, it would be handy. I still never understood why they did not at least use the "cushioned" steering wheel rim even on these cars. It is interesting what you said about the Buick with the telescope having the same horm pad as the Cadillac. It was probably the exact same column and wheel, with the different emblem. I never noticed this before, but it seems like Buick and Chevrolet did this years later in the 1990s- when the Chevrolet and GMC full-sized vans with the airbags used the same steering wheel as the 91-93 Buick LeSabre and Park Avenue and just left the Buick emblem off of the wheel. I am guessing since the Buick had the airbag first, that Chevrolet "borrowed" it from Buick, instead of the other way around. A note on the tilt wheel- someone was asking the owner of that 74 Olds 98 with the airbags if the car had tilt. He said he assumed, because his father ordered it with ALL options. You know me- I had to reply and tell the owner that the car did not have tilt, because it was not available on the models with the airbags option, because they really did not have the "know how" at the time to have that system in a car with tilt- or at least that is what I assume. That brings me to another question- have you ever actually seen a 74-76 Cadillac with the airbags option? I know it was optional, but I have never actually seen them on ANY 74-76 Cadillac, but I have seen this option on several different 74-76 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eights and Buick Electras (including yours), as well as my grandmothers old 74' Oldsmobile Toronado. Perhaps it was where there was more Oldsmobiles and Buicks made and the odds of seeing them in those cars are greater.....
I have also never seen this option on the 74-76 LeSabre or Delta 88. I have heard of this option being in some of the 1973 Chevrolets, as well as some 71-72 Mercury's, (full-size), but never actually seen it myself on these cars. I think the ones in the Mercury's were "test" cars for insurance companies.

That is also something new I learned about those lights on the 75-76 Buick Limiteds. I would have thought that they were standard on the Limited and interesting that less than 1/2 had that option. It seems as if they were also optional on the Grand Villes from what I have been able to gather. If I recall, my 73 Grand Ville brochure states that it was optional and probably was on the Oldsmobiles as well in the early 70s. I do not think that these lights were optional on the Catalina or Bonneville.

I agree with you- I really like these courtesy lights and they really do their job well. The other night I had the rear door open on my Grand Ville and was amazed at the amount of light that these put out on the road. You can really see where you are stepping out- and the red lens is really good safety feature if you are parked on the side of the road and open your door. I am having a problem with the light from my driver door. I think it is the switch, because when I open the driver door, none of the interior lights illuminate. When I open any other door, they all work fine, but also at that door (front driver door) that courtesy light will not illuminate. Perhaps bad bulbs at that light, and maybe the switch at that door needs attention.

It is strange why over 1/2 of the Electra Limiteds were ordered without them.

The mud flaps- I am starting to hate mine. One of the lower screws came loose from the flap on the driverside. I thought it was bad screw, so I took another from the wheel trim and it seemed to work fine. Today, I noticed that one was gone too and the lower part of the mud flap was flapping back and forth. I said forget it and I removed it, until I can get a bigger screw or something.

Quote:

Tony,
The "cheaper" steering wheel was also found on the 74-76 Buicks if you ordered the tilt and telescopic steering. 1974 was the first year for the telescopic steering in Buicks but it was already available in most other GM cars around 1965... The 1974 Buick telescopic wheel was the same as the one used in Cadilacs, it even had the same horn pad as the 71-73 Cadillacs with a different emblem. Driving a Buick with this option makes you wish it didn't have it!

As for the door courtesy/warning lights, while they they were available in other 60's GM cars, they were not seen in 60's Buicks.
Some Buicks (even the LeSabre) could have been ordered with them before 1975 but it was not very popular.
I thought they were standard on 1975 and newer Limiteds (I have never seen one that lacked the door C/W lights in Quebec) but less than half (only 41.5%) of the 1975 Electra Limited hardtop sedans produced had them, the other Limiteds had red reflectors instead. This is an inexpensive option that greatly impressed me when I was young, I still like it today and I don't understand why most Limiteds were ordered without them!

[Philippe Racicot]

Quote:

It is interesting what you said about the Buick with the telescope having the same horn pad as the Cadillac. It was probably the exact same column and wheel, with the different emblem.

I don't think that the Cadillac columns were exactly the same as they didn't have a neutral switch for their starters. Instead, they had a feature which didn't allow to turn the ignition key when the shift lever wasn't in the PARK or NEUTRAL position.
Otherwise they were similar but had different levers.

Quote:

I never noticed this before, but it seems like Buick and Chevrolet did this years later in the 1990s- when the Chevrolet and GMC full-sized vans with the airbags used the same steering wheel as the 91-93 Buick LeSabre and Park Avenue and just left the Buick emblem off of the wheel. I am guessing since the Buick had the airbag first, that Chevrolet "borrowed" it from Buick, instead of the other way around.

That's right, Buick ceased using this steering after 1993 (exept in the Century model) and there were probably too many of those left...

Quote:

A note on the tilt wheel- someone was asking the owner of that 74 Olds 98 with the airbags if the car had tilt. He said he assumed, because his father ordered it with ALL options. You know me- I had to reply and tell the owner that the car did not have tilt, because it was not available on the models with the airbags option, because they really did not have the "know how" at the time to have that system in a car with tilt- or at least that is what I assume.

I also emailed him about that! I couldn't resist either!!

Quote:

That brings me to another question- have you ever actually seen a 74-76 Cadillac with the airbags option? I know it was optional, but I have never actually seen them on ANY 74-76 Cadillac, but I have seen this option on several different 74-76 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eights and Buick Electras (including yours), as well as my grandmothers old 74' Oldsmobile Toronado. Perhaps it was where there was more Oldsmobiles and Buicks made and the odds of seeing them in those cars are greater.....
I have also never seen this option on the 74-76 LeSabre or Delta 88. I have heard of this option being in some of the 1973 Chevrolets, as well as some 71-72 Mercury's, (full-size), but never actually seen it myself on these cars. I think the ones in the Mercury's were "test" cars for insurance companies.

Yes the Mercurys were test cars, I have an Allstate ad showing a Mercury eqipped with air bags but they were never offered to the public.
GM also did tests before 1973 and I have seen a 71 or 72 Oldsmobile fitted with air bags in an old publication.
There was a fleet of 1000 Chevys made with it, for testing purposes, some survived, I have seen one on the web that was supposed to have the option but the small picture of it didn't show the interior. I have also heard (from someone on this board?) that an insurance company bought one of these Chevys in the mid nineties to test the air bags in a crash barrier and they performed as they were supposed to.
I know where is a 74 Fleetwood with air bags about 20 miles from where I live. Because the 74-76 Cadillacs had their glove box in the lower portion of their dashes, they had a small glove box mounted under their dash with the trunk release button inside it.
I have seen a 74 Electra Limited in Flint with the air bags, I have also bought used ones on Ebay from another 74 Electra. I have seen a 75 Park Avenue with the option (from the same small town as mine came from, probably from the same dealer) and a 75 Olds 88 4 door pillared sedan (in a french language publication) with the air bags too.

[Shaffer]

LOL. I never got a reply however from that owner of that 74 Olds. I have not checked- he may have relisted.

I remember seeing those all-state ads with the Mercury's with the airbags. I actually have a few myself. I have the yearly volume of "time" magazines from 1971-1975 that I bought from the local library back in the late 80s and I recall seeing this ad several times in these books. Sadly, I let the books get wet and ruin out in the storage building. A lot of good car ads in those books.

Also, if I recall, one of those all-state ads feature a crashed 1973 Impala- stating that "the owner of this airbag equipped 73' Impala walked away from this crash". I do not recall seeing any 71-72 Oldsmobiles with the airbags- thanks for that info- something new I learned.

I still wonder why that GM did not offer airbags on the 1974-1976 Oldsmobile and Buick wagons, since they were offered on the sedans and coupes. Convertible did not offer them either.

I would like to see that 75 Olds 88 sedan with the airbags, I have never seen a pillared sedan of those cars with the airbags. Now that I recall, I think I may have seen a 76' Sedan DeVille with airbags, but faintly.

The 1974 Electra Limited 4dr hdtp that I was considering back in August had the airbags. It had 39K actual miles and was in excellent condition. High bid (me) went to $2000, but he said he had to have $2300. If not for the additional $500 shipping, I would have bought it. Now I wish I had of bought it.

I am still thinking of checking on that local dark green 74' Electra that sets at a local auto-body repair shop. I am out of room!

[Philippe Racicot]

Was the 74 Electra with air bags on Ebay? I haven't seen it! I would also have been interested in one like that, do you have pictures of it?

[Shaffer]

Yes, it was on E-Bay. I did not have any photos of it stored in my computer- I wish I had of saved some. I went back through my old e-mails and the auction is still showing up when I click on the link, but the auction obviously ended back in September. I am suprised that it is not showing "invalid" yet. The bad news is that it is not showing the photos any longer. I thought I was the high bidder, but after reviewing it again, I only bid $1825 on it and there was someone who had bid a bit higher. He did e-mail me on 9-22-04 and tell me that the reserve was $2350 and he still had it. Who knows, he may still have it. Never know. Anyway- here is the link to it- you can still read the description though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2489880600

[Philippe Racicot]

Thanks for the info!

[Shaffer]

No problem. I am suprised it was not re-listed. If I had the extra room I would buy it- if it were relisted. It was extremely nice.

Another thing about the lower door lights. I was browsing E-Bay for older Toyotas (yes, I am a Toyota fan too - do not tell anyone. LOL ) and while looking at this rare 1973 Toyota Celica ST 2-door, I noticed that it has lower door courtesy lights, as well as lower door carpeting. Something I really did not expect for a early 70s Toyota sports car. It also has automatic transmission, A/C, vinyl top, as well as rear window defrost (heated rear window). Not sure if it was an option on these cars, but it also has bumper guards and side protective trim.
It is a neat little car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...;rd=1#mainImage

To update- this car sold for $4100! 51 bids

[Junqueboi]

Hi people. Just discovered this utopia of GM information! I wanted to add my two-cents worth to the door courtesy light discussion.

This option was available on the '73 Bonneville because I used to have one. It was the most beautiful car I've ever owned. I regret selling it to this day. I got it many years back from a family member when it had 30K on it.

It had a wonderful combination of options & the color combination was gorgeous -- it was a 2 door hardtop, golden olive with a white cordova top & white interior. It had factory white pinstipes, custom finned wheelcovers, bumper rub strips, F/R bumper guards, door edge guards, body side moldings, sport mirrors, power windows, locks, door courtesy lamps, AM Stereo 8-track, A/C, passenger's & drivers(!) visor mirrors, map/dome lamp, & rally gauges! From what I remember, that was it.

The car had the base 400-2V single exhaust engine, no tilt, no cruise, no p/trunk, no power seat. Strange options. I still have the dealer invoice with the options/prices somewhere. It was built in Doraville, GA.

I could go on and on....but anyway, back to the courtesy lights...I find it weird that my '67 Oldsmobile 98 LS has the exact same lights in its doors... I bought a very loaded '76 Buick Lesabre sedan at an impound auction and it also has this same option. Looks like GM used that same part for nearly ten years.